The Re Return

0:00 Alright. And welcome back to the Boundary Corner Podcast, a part of the College Shuttle network along with my partners, Brian Look, Don, the Tally, Shelton Moss and

1:30 our special guest from 247 Sports tonight. PT scoops on Matae Sis. I am Curtis Wilson and we are, as always, brought to you by the Counts Family Pharmacy and Doctor Jeremy Counts down at 301 S Main St. in Blacksburg. Go to see him when you can. We are also brought to you by Moments on the Maury, Moments on the Mori on by proud Hokie located outside of Lexington, VA. Looking for a getaway spring, summer or fall next year? Take a look at Moments on the Mori. Fishing kayak and relaxing by the fire pit down by the river. We're just hanging out on the back deck. Awesome place to go. I'm going to give you a shameless plug and tell you real quick for 247 Sports right now, you can join 247 Sports. Get all the inside scoops, save 50% off the annual membership. OK, y'all at top now because I'm at breath. Take a breath, Curtis.

2:28 Take a breath. You can, you can sip on a brew. I think you've also got some some ultra. There you were. You were pounding earlier. How long Mickey all? Hey, hey, hey, how you been, man? I'm good. I know we were chopping it up a bit before but always excited to be on here. We got the full crew today. I saw the new intro that got me fired up so just excited to chat with you guys. It's always just it's, it's the best coming on here, so really looking forward to it. Let's say we are always excited having you on here because we we talked recruiting and we get to talk some recruiting in a very positive light this time. But we also have some some interesting things swirling about on the staff hires.

3:12 So we got a couple fun things to to chop it up with you on tonight. 100%, 100% Mateis got the knowledge. Cannot wait to hear what you think about the 26, about the staff hires. Shelton, it's been a while since you showed up. How's life, big guy? Oh, it's been good, man. I'm just going to go going all over the place. Been to DC couple times last two weeks working with with basketball. So yeah, man, I've been obviously plugged in. We'll talk about the the coordinator hires certainly some some some polarizing takes on the TLII saw a lot of that. I think some people kind of leaning into, you know, it's a let their voices be heard. But yeah, definitely, definitely excited about positive hoking. News.

4:05 Good to hear, Tally. Are you there, Tally? Paige and Tally. Paige and Tally Sally was having desktop issues a few moments ago. Can you hear us, Tally? You can't hear us. I we can figure that out. We can figure getting you the phone out. It's it's the youth freezing that we have issues with. Can you hear me now? All right, we're going. We're going to give him a second Tally. Just talk whenever you need to Tally. But we are going to unload a lot tonight. We do have the staff hires.

4:46 He is moving. I can hear it. I can hear it. We can hear you now. All right, Can you hear us? He's back. He's back, OK, We we can deal with that. We can deal with it. But we are going to talk to staff hires. We are going to talk to class of 26 what, what a, what a show that was last week. But before we start with anything, it broke, I want to say about two hours ago, roughly about 7:00. And this is this is big news for anyone that is a Virginia Tech fan. Michael Vick is going to be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame next season. Well deserved.

5:28 A a a man who truly not only put this team on the map, you know, 20. It's getting close 26 years ago now, but also really changed the way college football was played in the way the quarterback position was played. So him getting his flowers is awesome. I don't know what y'all want to say on that. Feel free, gentlemen. It's been a long time coming. Well deserved. Glad that it's happening as we're kind of getting our shit back together a little bit on the on the coaching front, especially with the way this class got put together. I think it's just it's good timing all around. Good way to kind of you know, re re establish Virginia Tech as a national brand.

6:13 I think it's all aligning well for Virginia Tech and just it's a great honor for him and like I said, well deserved it. Like I said, long time coming I. Agree everything y'all saying is true. Like you said it's a long time coming. He overcame a lot, changed the game of football and you can't talk about the the game of football without. So I feel like players like that discern Hall of Fame Dame, that's what he did. So I'm like him, love. It because that's what he's going to say nothing. I'm excited.

6:57 We we, we just barely can hear you just so you know, so you might want to try the bugs again like it's picking you up again. I don't want to, I don't want to curse it, but I know the buds weren't working. If you do the buds, you might have to go into the little app and change it. But but tell you while he's trying to figure that out, what about you and Shelton? You can go after him and tell you about this induction for Mike Vick. Yeah, I think you guys covered it pretty well. It's obviously a huge honor. You know, he changed things for Virginia Tech. It's, you know, he's he's the guy that you think of when you think of Virginia Tech. You still see his jerseys at all the tailgates, you know, just an electrifying player. And, you know, he's been a great ambassador for Virginia Tech and just happy that he got his moment. I know tonight was big and obviously got a lot of recognition on the on the timeline there, but we'll be even bigger when he's, you know, actually inducted. Yeah, I just, I just saw it on Twitter. It's pretty good.

8:00 Obviously the NFF is a really well, well, regular organization. I think. I think for me, the the thing that you know, I admire the most about Victoria is just, you know, his redemption story and you know, how much, how much effort he's made to, you know, redeem himself as a person and just all the good he's been doing. Obviously coaching now, which is great. So hoping you get things turned around there, down there and in Norfolk. But great, great story and really tremendous honor for him. All right, Was he back? Let's see if he's back here. Can you hear us, Tally? You can hear us. Don't talk so I can hear you. Can you hear me?

8:41 It's all come together. It all works out. All right. It's all right. We still got you. All right, well, let's get to it. What we talked about at the top, the big news of the last few days. And let's start with Sunday. So everybody's hanging out, you know, probably most of us watching football. Brian just trying to get through his fantasy match up because he was in a war to make the last playoff spot and he did. It got it. Man, I got it. Done. I got it done man thank you. 52 yard touchdown from Saquon Barkley on the fake tush push that solidified the win for me. Yeah, but so we're all doing that and having fun, you know, dinner.

9:29 I'm sure you're doing things with your family, all of us having meals, whatever. Watching Sunday and all of a sudden, Pete Nacos forever at the other one. Yeah. I'm not going to mention their name tonight with you on the day, but Pete Nacos makes a mention. Print Pry will be the next defensive coordinator at Virginia Tech. You are our esteemed guest, so I will give you the four first. What was the first thought that popped in your mind when you read that or when someone texted you? Probably you, you probably knew it an hour before it broke. And you're just like, how do I, how do I break this down? I mean, I can give a little back story on just like my whole process. Obviously we had been hearing for a while that Brent Pryor was going to be involved in some way. In my mind when I read that, I thought, OK, analyst makes sense, doesn't have to move, you know, buy out money, however that works.

10:18 We started hearing more and more towards the end of last week that like it was legitimate interest in the defensive coordinator position day by day kept materializing. We heard a couple other names of people that were potentially interviewing for the position. But I would say as of I think it was Sunday or Saturday night, once the news broke, that's kind of when everything kind of came together and you know, we had been talking about how do we prepare for this and what's the reaction going to be? I think my first initial reaction, it was just like, this is super weird. And like I've had a couple days to sit with it and I think, you know, I'm somewhere, I'm still in the confused camp a little bit. Like I see the I see the benefits of it. I think when James Franklin took over, and we've kind of seen and we'll get it into it with the next hire, but he's really trying to build this thing with guys that he trusts. And you know, when he kind of got ran out of Penn State, he was kind of at a moment in his career where he had to make those big hires and kind of go outside of his tree. And I think he's someone that, you know, knows what he has. And Brett Pryor, I think they had nine top 25 defenses together from Vanderbilt and Penn State working together. He's someone that when the talent level is right, he he does the job well.

11:50 And I think when you look at the downsides to Brent Pry over his time, it's obviously been his head coaching capabilities. I think everyone knows he loves Virginia Tech. He endorsed it for James Franklin. We saw the emotional reaction in the introductory press conference. I think none of us, like we all kind of joked like maybe maybe that they'll get the band back together. But I think, you know, you definitely have to swallow a lot of pride to be able to come back. And it's definitely a weird thing. I've never seen something like this before. But I think, you know, James Franklin had to revalidate that decision, opted in and said, I want Brent Pry like he's the top guy if you take it from a candidate position. And, you know, Brent Pry had to opt in too. So I think if you have that trust, you have the proven track record.

12:43 He's a guy with now head coaching experience, for whatever that's worth from his time at Virginia Tech. So I think you can look at what he's done with James Franklin as a defensive coordinator and say I like this. But then the flip side is I know people have been talking about how how the defenses fared over the past couple years, the hires that he's made and kind of his evaluations on defense. I think a lot of that's circumstantial, but at the same time, like I understand the criticisms of the hire as well. So I'm somewhere in that confused boat. I think ultimately I do like the hire and I think it's pretty cool to see kind of unprecedented.

13:24 But ultimately it's a guy he trusts the most. And you know, James Franklin is willing to take that bet all. Right, Sally, you're holding laughs with like Ellis. Tell them go next. So your thoughts, you thought here you go in the film statistics about being trained here and stuff. When it broke, what was your first? Yeah, so when it first broke, I had to check that the the Twitter account wasn't a troll because that's actually what I thought. Like I had to verify multiple times that this was a legitimate account. We need that because I just had no idea that this was even being considered a possibility. I was pretty shocked. I I I thought it was a little bit weird, not necessarily bad, but just a little weird that he would bring a guy who you know, who who things didn't end very well as as head coach. The team apparently kind of quit on him. But you know, that being said, he's does have very good defense coordinator chops.

14:19 I think when you look at it from a statistical standpoint, obviously he put together a lot of good defense state. I would say in general, I think prize a coach that is that is going to put a product on the field that is equal to his talent level. I think he generally performed pretty up to, you know, up to par with the talent that he had. He didn't necessarily over perform, but he also didn't underperform either. So whatever talent that Franklin can assemble around him is probably, you know, going to be reflected on the field. So in that sense, I'd say, you know, if they recruit well, I expect him to put a good defense on the field because I trust prize defensive instincts for the most part. But, you know, his time at BT, you know, they had a decent year in 2022 with a not great roster, but there were also some developmental issues.

15:01 Linebacker, they couldn't figure that out. You know, the defense kind of underperformed in 2024. Now this fell apart this year. Again, I know that's not saying it's all prize fault, but he is, you know, a defensive on head coach and he does have to take, you know, some degree of responsibility for that. So I think on balance, it's interesting, unconventional, intriguing. I don't know exactly what words describe it. I'm not by any means pushing the panic button. I just thought it was not the route they were going to go. So I'm still trying to kind of process all that. Tally, can you just say check 1-2, can I hear you check? 1-2 you all. Right.

15:42 We can hear you. I'm going to let Brian go and then we'll get you back in, OK? Just make sure you're still hearing us, Brian. Still freezing? You're still freezing, but I can hear you. I can deal with you freezing as long as I can hear you. There we go. There we go. Brian. Your take? I thought it was weird, but a kind of a good weird, mainly because I think it's, it's a, it's a low risk higher overall. I I think with, with Brent Pry, you know what you're getting the, the resume is there. We've seen what his output output can look like, especially if you can get top 25 talent around him. And on that defense, he's going to put up consistent defenses. There's a reason that he was elevated to a point where the Virginia Tech job was on the table for him, and that's because he performed well at Penn State in the defensive coordinator role and he had a personality that some thought would would would be a really good asset as a head coach. So you still get all of that without the areas of deficiency that we have seen from Brent Pride, which is building a coaching staff, you know, getting things going from a full roster standpoint, especially when you look at position groups like online.

17:09 I know Sheldon, you mentioned linebacker as well. You know, a couple other position groups that struggled and obviously the the game day and game management struggles that we saw during his tenure there. A lot of those things go away moving back into the defensive coordinator role. The the weird thing is that you fired a guy three months ago and now he's back in your building in a prominent role with your program. And obviously I would, I would assume that Franklin probably had some degree of conversations with this this roster before pulling the trigger on this. So that that's my hope.

17:50 That's my understanding at this point. And it sounds like there was enough folks on board where it made sense to to to move forward that at least with the guys that Franklin's looking to retain on this current roster. Yep, we lost Tally. So I'm going to, I'm going to get my $0.02 before I let him go off it. It, it felt weird for like for me, it felt weird for about 30 minutes. But then I I started thinking, but wait a second. If James Franklin had taken Florida State or went anywhere else in this cycle, people would be lauding the move. Look at him. He went right back out, got Brent Pride, got a really good defensive coordinator, really good recruiter.

18:32 Guy's not a head coach. Guy's not a head coach at all. And and as I sat there, it became less and less weird because if we think about a Brent Price feelings towards Virginia Tech, watching the Cal game, that videotape of him watching his guys down in the Charlotte bar play that game, he was openly cheering for him, openly happy that they won that game. A lot of coaches can't do that. I think Brett Pry understands what he is as a person now. He knows what he is a person. I am a defensive coordinator. I'm not a head coach. This is what I'm meant to do. I love this place. We all know he loves Virginia Tech. He felt like it was.

19:13 It gave him the shot to where he wound up today. And to me, it's just like if he goes anywhere else, it's not weird. It's only weird here if he feels it weird. And I have a feeling. James Franklin maybe what took to Sunday Matei for everything to come down is he probably asked every single player on that roster who's going to probably stay if he comes back, are you OK with it? And I think if that had went sideways, I don't think he's the higher to be a decoordinator right now. But that's the way I feel. Brian Shelton Matei Feel Tally How do you feel about your boy, you know, getting hired as. Do y'all? Can y'all hear me? First of all, Yep.

19:56 Can you not hear me at all? Hang on, I can hear you. The audio is a little. Yeah, you're a little little little. Clown muffled. Muffled. Yep. So I've been, I think Brett Pry is messing up my my bra. Yeah, you're good now. I think that's what's going on. Brett is messing me up, but I mean, I don't know, man. The initial like I was on vacation when I heard it, so I don't know how that came through. That was the only thing that came through. Brett Pryor, defensive coordinator, while I'm trying to enjoy my cruise and I'll live it.

20:38 I was like, what the what are we doing? You know, just honestly, it's like, think about you getting fired from your job, right? You get fired. You don't just get fired like you get fired bad. Brian, get the fuck out. You're out of here, buddy. You haven't done a good job. Get out. You know, just take what you can grab in this little box and have a nice life. And then you walk back in the building. That's a Friday. You get to walk back in the building Monday and see the same people that told you to take that box and get out. It's just weird. It's crazy.

21:18 It's crazy, man. Like I, that was my initial reaction. It's kind of like going through a bad divorce and then your mom or dad says she's still a part of this family and she's coming to all the family functions. You know what? I'm saying you said that to me and I cracked up. I cracked up when you said that. But, you know, Culverheads have prevailed and thought about it a little bit and talked to some people and I'm like, OK, I get it. I understand he wants people around that he trusts, you know, they're going to raise the talent in the in the program. So we've seen what they can do when they do have talent. So a lot of times that that's what matters. You know, we had some talent, but talent will be elevated. I do think Brett Pratt can call defense, and I think Curtis put it best.

22:08 If he went somewhere else and all of this happened, nobody would have batted an eye. You know, if he would have got the job at Florida State and then he brings Brett Pryor on as his defensive coordinator, people would probably have been over the moon. OK, yeah, he did good. But just he or him getting him getting fired and then rehired in three weeks or however three months, it was just a shock. So I'm interested to see what happens. It's going to be Sally went out there and got the the Internet, Sally just so he can follow up on on these coaching hires. And then he saw Brentavious Pride come across his screen and I think. This is the first day I got it.

22:52 Like the third day, you know, I got to like a thoroughly and the first thing that I see it pops up if somebody puts that and I'm like, like Shelton said, I'm like, this has got to be a joke. Like somebody's this is a fake account. This is a fake account. Look, when when Franklin got hired, you know, there were there were some people were like, go ahead and get Brent, bring Brent back right now. And like I was like, you know what, I can I can see it happen. But like, my first instinct was like, maybe defensive analyst, somebody comes in, kills it two years, maybe Brent's that second DC higher under Franklin at Virginia Tech. I didn't think we'd see it out the gate. So that's where it's different for me. And it's it's certainly a unique situation.

23:36 But like, to Curtis's point, you know, I think the his time at DC at other stops speaks for itself. Yeah. I don't think we're like, you know, at least on the defense side of the ball. We're not, we're not, we're not banking on a risky hire here. I mean, this is a guy that, you know, for all intents and purposes, when he's had some good players around him, he's he's done well. So as long as Franklin and, and the rest of the staff can get, you know, top 30, top 25, top 20 classes coming into Virginia Tech every year, I don't think we're going to have a problem on defense. Not at all. Also, just to quickly kind of put a bow on it, you know, like James Franklin and Brent Pryor have known each other for 30 years now.

24:19 There's probably no one else in the industry that James Franklin trusts more. And like, I think Sheldon made a good point too, that when Brent Pryor was calling the defense in 2022, like it was a top 45 defense, the talent wasn't all there. I think kind of the inefficiencies of Brent Pryor as a head coach where like he didn't have all the resource. Like I'm not going to put it all in the resources, but like he didn't have necessarily the top end resources or was a good enough head coach to bring the type of talent needed to bolster that defense or the offense or, you know, the program in general or bring in the right hires. Like, that's his downside. You know, James Franklin and Brent Prye, great friends, their families are great friends.

25:05 Like if this works out, the ideal vision, like Brent Prye is not leaving probably for another head coaching opportunity. Like he's. Going to say. Exactly. And like he did get interest, Arkansas reached out. They wanted to give him the job. Mississippi State was looking at him before Arnett. Brent Prye is still very well regarded even elsewhere, right? And, you know, I think the downside, like worst case scenario it would be, it's almost unimaginable. But like, if James Franklin had to fire Brent Prye again, you know, or probably gets fired again from Virginia Tech, I think that would be insanely awkward. But other than that, like you can see the upside with this move. All right.

25:49 So I want to get into now what broke earlier today, but I need y'all to read the chat before we start. Matan, we'll kick it to you first read the chat, but then I'm going to kick it to you because we're going to talk about what just broke about two minutes ago. Tahal, the COOC tight end coach, former Penn State offensive lineman, is basically announced. Pete Damel comes out today. He is going to be the next offensive coordinator at Virginia Tech. He will call plays. Matei, I need you. We've been looking at what he's coached, but you give me the lens of recruiting because a lot of Penn State fans are like crap. They frickin stole how And now who do they have in the DMV?

26:36 Yeah, I mean, how's a great recruiter? Obviously tight end galore. Coached a bunch of great tight ends at Penn State. I think Friar Moose was the earliest one. Obviously Tyler Warren had his big season. You know, he has guys like Luke Reynolds, Andrew Olesh, 4*5* guys, DMV guy through and through. I think the interesting thing was that they were always going to target him. Maybe even we'll see what happens with the transfer portal in terms of Penn State tight ends. But that's obviously a big part of what Virginia Tech's offense is going to look like in the future. And, you know, in targeting him, it was interesting that, you know, with his name had come up. It was something that we thought maybe would be a tight end roll, but ultimately, I think in order to get him to Virginia Tech needed that upgraded title.

27:29 I think I understand the Tyler Bowen comparisons like I pointed them out today, but I think there's a lot of respect there from James Franklin. And again, it's kind of the same thing with pride that this is someone who James Franklin has worked with for five years. Like really trust him. He's a quick mover. He came in as an analyst. He's a former Penn State offensive lineman, quickly worked his way up to tight ends coach and then Co offensive coordinator. I know they do that quite a bit at Penn State. And ironically, it's always like a tight end coach that has the Co C title. But he's just another one that, you know, really well regarded by the players, really proven recruiter.

28:11 Obviously, we don't know what that looks like as a play caller. That's the one kind of I think where everyone's head was at today in terms of, you know, they thought they were that Virginia Tech was going to get a bigger name. But, you know, they did interview some other offensive coordinators. One went to Ole Miss today. I think that timing kind of speaks for itself, but James Franklin once again kind of made the call that after having extremely long interviews with a lot of candidates, this is going to be our guy. Shelton, any feels on this? Yeah.

28:52 I mean, I think it's I would have preferred someone with a little more extensive play calling experience not to, you know, down play him. I know he was a cozy for a couple years. I don't think he was a play caller though. Somebody please Fact Check me if I'm wrong about that. Had a couple years at Western Illinois as a cozy as well. I know he's a good coach by all accounts, a very good recruiter. So I don't want to, you know, down play that part of it. I just, I felt like with the budget that Tech had, I would have expected more, you know, kind of big time hotshot OC hire. But, you know, we'll see how it works out. I mean, I, I, I feel like, you know, coordinator hire is really tough to judge because sometimes, you know, I was looking at looking at Siginetti's guys today, you know, they both came with them from GMUI mean they didn't really have any powerful experience when they came there and only, you know, maybe two or three years of, of, you know, coordinator experience in general.

29:42 So, you know, there's not like one specific mode that you have to have in order to be successful as a coordinator. So I try to keep that in mind. But yeah, I mean, it's just kind of a, you know, again, kind of like probably a little bit maybe slightly more unconventional higher. But you know, I'm not going to write off a guy before he's he's coached a game of football at BT, So we'll see. Brian Siegler. A lot of thoughts on this. I'll put you in the middle. Yeah, a lot, a lot of thoughts on this when I saw it come through, you know, I started doing some digging, doing some doing some research because how was the name that had come up early like Patel alluded to, but we weren't exactly sure to what capacity that role was going to be. You know, now we found out, you know, OC play caller, whether or not, you know, there's a Co OC down the line that's going to be attached at the hip with with how that remains to be seen. But as the rest of this staff shapes up, you know, it's it's it's easy to out the gate make the comparisons to Tyler Bowen, you know, COC Titans coach at Penn State, call plays at AFCS school for one year had a couple games where you call plays at Penn State, you know, in the last couple years, but but wasn't a full time play caller.

31:07 So very similar resume. But when we look at the circumstance of the higher, the circumstance of this higher is a lot different. And when I look at the circumstance, this isn't a first time full time offensive coordinator play caller going into a first time head coach situation in Blacksburg like it was with Tyler Bowen and Brent Pry. This is a very established head coach in James Franklin and offensive minded head coach in James Franklin. So I think when you look at this situation, it's it's definitely a better situation for a first time play caller to come into relative to what Tyler Bone was stepping into with Brent Pry in Blacksburg.

31:58 That being said, by all accounts, this was the guy that Franklin was ready to hire two years ago before they put AK in that role. It sounds like there was push from the AD that they wanted a big time name, big time, all the all that stuff. And they ended up with AK instead of, of of hiring and and promoting howl at that point. So that speaks to where James Franklin's head was, you know, just two years ago. So yeah, that that's a lot to unpack and unwrap there. And then you look at the recruiting pedigree, this guy in the DMV area, and I think that speaks for itself. And then just the developments he's been able to do with his position group.

32:41 We'll see how much of of a hand he has on an individual position group as things kind of, you know, flesh out with the rest of the staff. But parallels to Tyler Bowen aside, and you're not going out there and breaking the bank on a more established play caller. Yeah, I think there's there's a lot to like about this. But if I think there's there's we're still a kind of in wait and see mode to see what the quarterbacks coach looks like in particular. And then kind of the way the rest of the staff on offense shapes up to to kind of help out this first time play caller in Blacksburg. You had a chat telling you what the quarterbacks coach looked like.

33:25 Well, I know, I know. We we going to talk about that. Because yeah, I was just looking away for a little bit. Just had a the news broke. On here but tally how do you feel about how in general about you know what you've read of him and I know you text and talk to people. Yeah, so, well, I talked to you that because I was, I was out driving first day back at work. So I had to come with Curtis because I got a new route. So I was up in Tennessee driving and in the country couldn't see nothing and got a camera in my car. So I really can't be looking at my phone anyway. So I was like, Curtis, tell me what's going on because I can't see it. So Curtis broke down kind of how he felt and I'm looking at things. And then after I get home, I do a little bit of research. And I was like, you know what that is research matters. It don't matter.

34:08 So I had to go back and think about some of the stuff that the coaches say. A lot of times it is coach speak. But if you go back and you listen to James Franklin in his interviews, he says I've had really good players that it don't matter what the play call is, they're just good. Like I had Sequan Barkley in the backfield and he just went and made plays. So when I started thinking about that, I'm like, OK, he's going to get people around him that he trusts because he's been at Penn State for 12 years, 11 years. And then they go out and get this kick ass ADR or DC, right? Who is it?

34:51 What's his name? Nose. So they're going to get Nose last year. We get fired this year. So I know in his mind, I don't know what their relationship is, You know, I don't know what was said, You know, behind the scenes and stuff. You got to win games, of course, you got to beat certain people. But he's been coaching the same for all these years. Then you go get this new guy in and all of a sudden everything goes to hell in 1/2 basket, right? So when you do that and you pay somebody $3,000,000 or $2,000,000 or however much money they're getting paid, they're probably going to have a relationship with that AD and go, hey, I don't like his philosophy or he wants me to do this and I don't want to do it. So I just really feel like James Franklin said, I just want to get guys around me that I trust and I want to go get players that are talented enough to beat the players across the field from him.

35:45 He's got the opportunity to do that because what you don't spend on coaches, you're going to spend it on NIL. You got to go get a quarterback like it didn't matter. It didn't matter what we did when Bowen was here, but when he had the ball off to Tooting, good things was going to happen, right? That's true. That's true. We just got him hurt, you know, we just got him hurt. We didn't need him hurt. But I just think they're going to focus more on, I think they're going to focus real heavy on getting the Jimmy Jimmies and Jones in. All right, I'm last to go here and I've been pretty positive. I'm a pretty positive person as most people know me. I I do not like this hire.

36:28 I do not like this hire. And, and y'all are putting some good points. He's a good recruiter. Tally's putting it up, but we're going to just have really good plays and we just call a simple inside zone run. They're going to go 75 yards for a touchdown. We ain't got to worry about good play calls. But I worry he's only called plays one time. He's caught a few here and there. He does not have the experience. He is 34 years old. He is 34 years old and now we're putting him in charge of our offense over the last 15 years. I'm stealing this from somebody, from my neighbor. The last 15 years, even in our bad years, we have not had to worry about defense.

37:09 Even in our bad years, Brent Pryne 2021, that was like a 52nd ranked defense. What, literally backs in a bunch of guys. We probably wouldn't have been on many other rosters. We're turning it over to him. I hope I'm wrong. I hope a year from now y'all make fun of me and say look how wrong you were, look how wrong you were. I'm worried about this hire and now I'm even more worried about it because of what just broke 10 minutes ago now, and that is Danny O'Brien is going to be the quarterback coach. Danny O'Brien's been a quarterback coach for two years at Penn State. Two years. Yes, he did analyst work and he did assistant quarterback work. Yay. Apparently Trace Mcsorley's coming. Yay. The only person right now in the room that's still left that has play calling experience is Matt Moore. Matt Moore called a Troy.

38:01 He called his first year at West Virginia. That is the only other guy who has play calling experience on this offense this half. And we don't know if he's going to get fired or not. So, Mattel. You know who does have have play calling experience? But Jimmy Franklin ain't called freaking plays in almost a decade and a half, Brian. Have, have, Are you sure about that? Because I've seen something safe folks say that I, I don't even know who's been calling plays at Penn State, but I'm, I'm just throwing it out there. So he is a he's, he's still a offensive minded head coach. You got to this. This is and, and, and more. This is more. This is a better situation than a Marvin Pratt situation because he is also not a first time head coach bringing somebody along like a Chris Marv.

38:47 And you know who else played quarterback? Curtis, James Franklin. That's true. All right, Matei. Matei was feverishly, feverishly. Let's see. Matei is like. He's like, hang on, we're breaking some fucking news here. What's the background on Danny because I don't have much on him other than I know he coached at Penn State, Matei and I'm sure that's what you probably, you probably had a note card already on and know how well you're prepared. Not not super well, if I'm being candid. I know Trace Mcsorley was the name that was mentioned there. Didn't quite know what they were going to do. Obviously knew O'Brien could be the quarterbacks coach that just broke like 20 minutes ago, Matt Zeditz from CBS Sports. But I think the connection there's, he played at Maryland. I kind of vaguely remember him playing there under James Franklin.

39:44 The relationship goes back to, like, 2009, I believe. He was a, like a, you know, kind of like the same thing, you know, starts off as an analyst, quickly works his way up, becomes the quarterback's coach. I think 20 was it last year was his first full year. Yeah, last year. But Like was working with Sean Clifford in 2023. I think, you know, we kind of see it with the last two hires. And I think to your point about like James Franklin being offensive minded, I think the next step in that is that like he's not, it's clear, like it's been clear, but he's not outsourcing these jobs to people that he doesn't have a trusting relationship with or like he's not just paying off the biggest names on the board. I think, you know, I tried to hammer that point home that like, these candidates are being compared against those outsourcing candidates, and he's once again choosing his own guys.

40:48 And I think, you know, there's ego involved with all of this. And I think it, you know, whether it's good or bad, we'll we'll end up finding out. But I think James Franklin wants his own guys and to do it his way and really trust that, you know, these guys that have come up with me and will place their trust in me, like we'll all do it together. So I agree with your points that like if the talent is there, they're able to do it. But like it's very clear that he's going to do it his way and he's seen a lot of success in the past doing it that way. And I think if you can somehow translate that PSU model, like we see what the last two hires, these are guys that start off as analysts were promoted internally. That's kind of his MO.

41:31 Like that's the way he prefers to do it, like bringing on guys, teach them from the ground up. And a lot of them have been successful. Some of them have moved on to other jobs. It's it seems to be that's how this staff is going to continue to shake out. Maybe a couple big names here and there, but otherwise I think, you know, it's going to be his guys. What you mean a couple big names here? Wait a minute mate. OK. Laying it out here, Shelton, anything on this? I mean, it looks like you're reading too, so. Yeah, I was doing some dig on his background. Obviously you mentioned offensive end of this for a couple years, three years and then one is Aga and then the past 2 is quarterbacks coach. So a little bit of a thin resume. It just mainly just one program.

42:18 It gives a little bit of pause. But I, I saw I was thinking about this, you know, I don't think like, you know, at this point in, in Virginia Tech's, but you know, where, where they are as a program. You know, the money we're putting in, the coaching staff that, you know, we, we'd like to have, you know, we expect to compete for playoff spots. You know, we want to be a program like Utah or BYU or Vanderbilt that, you know, develops talent and has good coaching and, you know, can at least kind of punch by the weight class to try to compete for a playoff spot once every couple years. You know, So from that standpoint, like, you know, 8 to 9 wins might be OK. But like, you know, the question we have to ask ourselves is like, is this staff, the staff that's going to lead us to, you know, competing for playoff spots? And, you know, right now I'm a little bit iffy on it just because of getting lack of, you know, experience in certain, certain spots. You know, doesn't mean to be bad, but it's like, you know, again, like what I was talking about with the budget we have, like, you know, we were kind of expecting a home run higher. And I think, you know, right now it's like, OK, maybe we get a double, you know, try to stretch into a triple, but it doesn't, it doesn't seem like a home run.

43:22 So that's kind of just, you know, the, the thoughts I've been having. It's like, you know, where the goals, you know, the goal, the goals are are, you know, increased here. So, you know, we want, we want coaches that can can match those expectations. Yeah. I mean, we, when we look at it, we don't really have a lot on O'Brien from a recruiting standpoint. It's a very limited sample size. So this is probably the first hire that you can't really say point to and say this guy is a super plus recruiter because we we probably don't have enough data on him at this point to really say that one way or the other.

44:04 You know, we we know that the caliber of players that were comfortable playing for him that were originally committed to Penn State and have since been one of them committed to Virginia Tech now. And the other one what went to Auburn, went to somewhere else, went back to Penn State, whatever, whatever, whatever his his path there was. Yeah. That was another player that that at one point was also comfortable playing and being coached by Danny O'Brien. So, you know, limited sample size on what he's doing from the recruiting standpoint. So we don't really know what that looks like.

44:46 I'm interested to see if Trace Mcsorley's coming over as like a Co quarterbacks coach, assistant quarterbacks coach, what that role looks like for him. And you know, we're still, we're still got a couple other spots that we got to fill here and, and kind of figure out who on the current staff is being retained on the offensive side. If anybody. You know, I think we've got some some general ideas on that at this point, but we haven't heard anything official and really none of these, you know, outside of the national publications, we haven't really seen any official announcements on this. So we're, we're still kind of waiting on the official details, titles, roles, all that fun stuff as far as what, what, what, what these guys are going to be doing within the, within the team other than these, you know, high level official roles that, that we have with OC and DC and quarterbacks coach.

45:41 So I'm, I don't feel better about the how higher with the Danny O'Brien higher. I, I don't necessarily feel worse about it. I feel about the same as I felt when when the howl higher came across. If we had brought in somebody like Decker from ODU in that role and he was a Co OC, I think I'd feel even better about the howl higher. This kind of just kind of keeps me in a, you know, slightly above lukewarm feeling on the howl higher and very much TBD on Danny O'Brien.

46:25 I know you kind of let me. Throw this out. Let me throw this out right quick. And Curtis, I'm going to let you divvy it up if you want to. Can you hear me pretty good? Yeah, you're good. You're coming through pretty good. So James Franklin got a, what are we #24 are we 24 or 2524 top 25 class? He got a top 25 class by himself. By himself. All right, so we're we can sit here and divvy up all of what we think about the coach and we know we got to play games and all that. I I'm not saying that that doesn't matter, But if James Franklin did all of this by itself and these guys that have been working with him have been developing talent are coming in and then thinking about some of the names that we've heard on defense.

47:15 What do you think the the ceiling is for recruiting? I didn't even talk about coaching yet. What do you think the ceiling is for recruiting on the coaches that he's bringing in if he got a top 25 class in two weeks by himself? Mate, sis, that is your wheel buddy. Where is the ceiling? It's it's tough to, it's tough to answer because obviously like top 25 is the expectation. I think one of the best parts about James Franklin as a coach is bringing in talent and you look at the resources that he's paired with and was able to get from Virginia Tech. Like I, you know, my personal expectations are like right around that top 20 mark.

48:02 I think it's, I remember probably being on this podcast a couple years ago talking about Brett Pry and I'm like, you know, Top 40, like maybe that's the goal. And all of a sudden now you're shifting to top 20. But I think like you obviously have so many blue bloods out there. And I know like it's, it's a constant arms race, like more and more programs. Utah just did something today with private equity. I'm blanking on the name, but someone just got like a massive donation. Michigan State got like 400 million. Like it's just a constant arms race of these programs that are gonna try to keep building it up. I think the benefit to James Franklin is he's already been in this area.

48:45 He has those relationships and guys like are never like he's going to be able to kind of unlock that tier where you can still get that elite caliber player without having to pay an arm and a leg over the competition. Like those relationships still matter at the end of the day. So with the blue bloods, like that's usually the top fifteens. I think you can see some years where maybe the talent is a little richer and Virginia Tech moves up. But overall expectation I would say is, you know right around that 20 mark all. Right. Do you want to add anything else about the QB coach before we start pushing along here? I don't know that, man. I'm just glad we got a quarterback coach.

49:26 I'm just glad they're not letting offensive line or tight end coach, coach the quarterbacks. At least put something in there. This doesn't make it to the quarterbacks. This is what's sold talent. Wait a second. He played quarterback in college? Yeah. He played quarterback in the Canadian Football League. Yeah. I think it said he threw 3 touchdowns and 10 picks so we don't need him to play all. Right before we get into the class of 2026, there is really one reason why Danny O'Brien left Finn State. He did not want to coach Peyton Thousand because he got rid of him once and then he tried to get back on board with him. So really, Danny O'Brien just said, I ain't messing with that kid. I'm out of here.

50:11 I'm going down to Tech because that class that James Franklin pulled in last week, I'm going to start the questions off Brian Shelton, get them loaded. But what I want to put it is, you know, Brian Dawn said something and mate, you've been doing this a while with 247. Have you ever seen anything like what happened in that two week span in your in, in like not just tech, other place or places that were 50 to like 20? Have you ever seen anything like the way this class flipped from 1:24 to 24 in two weeks? No, not at all. And like I think we all knew when James Franklin was going to be hired, like he was going to raid the commitment list of Penn State. I didn't know how successfully he was going to be able to do that, obviously working with a two week window, but I've never seen it elsewhere where a team has moved up that much. Conversely, I've never seen, like, the Penn State slide is probably the biggest slide I've ever seen landing with two guys in their class.

51:10 But, you know, I was kind of joking around with some of the people like Brian Doan and Evan Colby. I was just saying, like, the dopamine we were getting from, you know, just writing up the articles, having them ready to go, like hearing another one was coming. It was just like, it was unbeatable. And obviously it happened in a short period of time. But these are relationships that spend, you know, years and years. So, yeah, James Franklin was able to do it. I'm sure, you know, there's some whispers that, you know, maybe this guy's going to be your position coach. I think that's starting to come to fruition now. But ultimately, I mean it, I, I thought they would definitely have a chance to push for a, you know, top 3530 class. But to land in the top 25 I think is insanely respectable and impressive.

52:11 Whoever will stand. Yeah, I mean, seeing, seeing the climb was, I mean, it was kind of unprecedented, like going from like moving up 100 spots in the rankings. I, I don't know if that's ever been done. I mean, mate, you can, you can Fact Check me on that. But that was a a climb that I was not expecting when when Franklin took over, I was like, if this, if this class ends up top 50, I'll I'll feel OK, I'll feel like, all right. Well, he salvage he salvage the class after, you know, losing the coach, losing a couple your your your top flight pieces in the class. You know, you, you maybe could bring a, a Tommy Wilder back in. You get a couple guys from Penn State that are in the four-star caliber and then you kind of fill out the rest of the roster with some, with some, you know, decent caliber three star guys. And yeah, then we see what Franklin was able to throw together in a two week time frame and it's it's really impressive because it gives us a really good starting point. It got us a whole lot of national press, which is coming at a very good time.

53:20 That's one thing that we're seeing with Franklin is that when when Franklin does something, the the national publications get a hold of it pretty quick. So as long as we can keep the ship moving in the right direction, that's going to be a big benefit for the brand of Virginia Tech. Yeah, I think for me, the, the most impressive thing for Franklin is just how much work he's put into making this class happen. Because you know, that type of that type of shit we've seen with this recruiting class is the product of countless hours of hard work, you know, making calls, talking to kids, you know, convincing them that this is a place that, you know, they, they, they want to spend the next, you know, years of their career, even though they don't know the entire coaching staff, you know, mapping, mapping out, you know, who you want to target, Just just all the work that goes into it.

54:03 I know we don't want to throw his predecessor under the bus too much because, you know, we, we obviously all love him. He's going to be our DC soon. But he unfortunately did not do that stuff when he got hired here. And I think it was a main contributing factor to, you know, how poor his first season was because you just, you just got to have a plan. You get hired. I think, you know, he's just so relentless as recruiter. Franklin. Franklin that is so just, you know, credit to him for all the work he's done because that is all that is all effort on his part. So I think it's, I think it's great to see. I think also just his ability to have two weekends was so crucial because like whenever we're talking to recruits, whenever I'm talking to you guys, it's always the atmosphere is great and we love Lane Stadium and all of that is great.

54:46 And you're able to pair that with, you know, not only a home weekend, but then the last weekend of the year, which you know, having Franklin in Blacksburg while the team is out in Charlottesville. Those were two crucial weekends to get guys to come on campus. I think there's, you know, a lot of lessons in this. But like 1 is that he was able to get all those guys to come because they could have gone to, they could have gone elsewhere. Some of them did visit over the two weeks, other places. But you know, able to keep that conversation open, able to get them to campus, explain to them what the situation is. And then you're all of a sudden you're able to see, OK, this could be my home pair.

55:27 The atmosphere for the guys that were there for the first official weekend with the relentless nature of Franklin and saying you can help build this place up. And, you know, those were crucial, crucial weekends in order to make this all happen. Yeah, no. And I was going to say just to, you know, kind of go along with what Matea is saying and also let Matea kind of giving this kudos because I know they do a lot of work and look at a lot of fam and interview a lot of, you know, kids that's getting ready to go to college and things like that. It you have to be able to coach. I do understand that. But talking to some of the parents, parents and players are really, really impressed with James Franklin, like him just in the room. He's going to get in the room with some of those kids. And there's no such thing as a can't miss prospect because that things happen.

56:20 But when you look at somebody like, I don't know, Trevor Lawrence, right? We kind of knew what Trevor Lawrence was going to be going to Clemson. We kind of knew what they expect, right? So Virginia Tech hadn't had very many opportunities to get in the room with a player of that caliber. I think James Franklin gets you in those rooms, at least to be able to talk to those parents again. You know, that trying to diverge too much information and stuff that I'm not supposed to talk about. But we had a kid that was committed elsewhere, had been committed elsewhere a long time and recommitted elsewhere. And next thing you know, he's sending his stuff into Virginia Tech. It's all because of Franklin.

57:04 It's all because of talking to his parents, saying things like, I'm sorry, we didn't. I don't know how we missed this. You know, this evaluation wasn't, I'm sorry we didn't get it, but what can we do now? We're at this place. What do we do now? We want you here. And this is going to Virginia Tech. Matei Tally brought it up and I want you to just hit on it real quick. What did go on with I got his name here? Hold on with Ty. He's committed though. He has signed the line. We knew he flipped, but what happened with that?

57:46 Because that seemed like a 180 in less than 20 hours. Sorry, I cut out a little bit, you said Tyrell Grant. Tyrell Grant flipped. I mean, like Tally said, Tally was trying to be nice. I mean. Yeah. I mean, he signed. So he clearly wanted to come to Virginia Tech, but what happened? Because that was like, boom. Keep in mind too, like he was committed to Syracuse, visited officially to Virginia Tech, so the interest was already there. I know he put out a tweet that I think a lot of people are referencing that says like 1000% or 10,000% committed to Syracuse. That was kind of prompted by Syracuse for him to put that out.

58:27 I think the entire time he was kind of thinking, OK, I want to make this happen. How do I make this happen? What's the right way of doing it? And I just think with the timing of everything, that being I believe it was Tuesday night of last week and then he announced on signing day, I want to say like it was, he was already trending that way. And I think some other events LED up to it off. We can talk about Matt Sieg if we want to, but they were really targeting him as a safety. And I think, you know, once they kind of work things out, there's multiple components to it. It was just like everything was in alignment. And I think he saw it as, OK, this is a can't miss opportunity.

59:15 I got to make the switch all. Right. I mean that was one that we kind of we saw and we were like, OK, that was a little bit of a surprise coming coming down from us. But it sounds like, you know there was a little bit of that in the works for a little bit longer than I think some of us knew there. The thing I want to talk about with this class that this is this has got to be, I mean, some of it was already being addressed before frankly got here, but this is Franklin. I think seeing what this current roster is and where the biggest hole in the roster is, 6 tackles in this class. Talk a little bit about that and kind of some of these guys that may have already been on Virginia Tech's radar.

59:58 Obviously Tommy Water was was committed at one point, then came back. And then maybe some of these guys that Franklin was able to to to sway in our direction as things started to wrap up there. Yeah, and I think, you know, Thomas Wilder coming, coming back was huge. Obviously had to win that again. He really liked Maryland. Like I thought for a while he was going to go to UMD, but he always loved Virginia Tech was, you know, I think James Franklin was kind of dicing on the cake there to bring him back. Obviously getting a lot of these guys to visit was big Benjamin Azuka, He would he came in obviously Penn State flip ace Hamilton flipped to Michigan. They're kind of targeting like an interior guy and Azuka like I'm extremely high on him.

1:00:45 I think if he I keep saying like if he were 6566, this would be like absolute national prospect. He's already highly rated, like high three star on the verge of a four-star, but you know, 63315 inside guy can play guard, maybe even center. We'll see how everything shakes out there. Obviously, Kyle Altuner if he comes back, Marlon Bright up in New Jersey. I know he played in Class B competition, but he's just someone that has the body, has the athletic ability. State champion in in New Jersey, played some other impressive schools out of state as well. Again, Penn State flip, Maddox Cochran, he was like, I think he was big too, Not only like anytime you're talking about Wisconsin and offensive line category, like give me that guy.

1:01:41 And he was someone that I think on the day that James Franklin was hired, he decommitted, whatever that means. But he was someone that was targeted, obviously, like another tackle guy in state guy getting Tyrell Simpson to reaffirm massive, massive body. Like, I know he's listed at 6-7. He might be 6-8. And I think just like with all of these guys, it's just like their size and ability feels different than previous classes. And I feel like I've come on here and probably talked about, oh, Virginia Tech has signed like 2 commitments this cycle. They can project either way.

1:02:29 It's like a lot of these guys are tackles. And I think James Franklin was talking about in the press conference, not that you want to jump too far ahead and say Virginia Tech's going to the semifinals, but he was like, if you're playing 16 games, you're going to need that depth on the offensive line. And they absolutely crushed it. Not only were they able to get the RE affirmations, Thomas Wilder back in, get the flip of Cochran, they're able to bring all the Penn State guys with them. And I just think it goes to show like that was the major area of need and they got some really talented players to come along. Yeah, it's, it's like we lately we've been used to having, you know, maybe making a, a splash with one of those caliber players and then like, you know, no knock on Buddy, but a whole lot of Buddy wagged them kind of in the back and they're kind of filling out the rest of that class.

1:03:21 And then you've got, you know, he's really, you know, the lower rated guy, but it's still a Woodbury Forest commit, which is a place that historically Virginia Tech is not done very well. And we're starting to make some some headway in. So it's it's good seeing that come along in the process as well. I love the focus in the trenches on really on both sides. But obviously the offensive line was the area of need for Virginia Tech. When we look at the biggest problem with this last year's team, it's we were one injury on the offensive line away from having no tackles that were ready to play football. We were one and and.

1:04:01 We lost the guard and had to move the guy we were playing at tackle into guard and we were a absolute liability right tackle the rest of the year. And we were a miss a mishmash of of different players across that line other than Al Tuner, who was probably the the most consistent player on that offensive line all year. So getting these guys in the building and, and obviously seeing what we can do with the portal is going to be very important. Yeah, I talked with these guys. I talked to, you know, some other folks. Knowing who we're targeting in the portal is going to be just as important in securing a quarterback in the portal as anything else.

1:04:41 Because if you've looked at this offensive line, you know that we're going to need some immediate help, even though we've got some of that long term help coming in with this 26th class. 1000% there. I want to take it just a couple different ways because normally we always, it's really weird because you've been on here before, we always talk about who's that diamond, Who is the diamond to top the Virginia Tech recruiting class? And this year was supposed to be Thomas Wilder with everything that's happened. I mean, Terry Wiggins, Messiah Thomas, Troy Hume, Davion Brown, and even get down into Pierce Peterson.

1:05:22 I mean, these guys are super highly ranked guys. And it's crazy because it's like usually we were like one, maybe 2. It's just like it's 6. There's six guys. And even if you start going lower, like a Tyson Harley, I mean, these guys are studs and a lot of them are already like physically built to get here. So which one for you that as you started seeing, it's going to go this way where you're like you're you this you can show your fandom aside because we know you graduated from tech. What one did you like? Like as you start seeing the notes and you get stuff in like, I want him. Like if we don't get anybody else, if we get this kid, I'm going to feel. Yeah, I mean it.

1:06:07 It's got to be Terry Wiggins. Like, I know he's at the top, but like, he is just such an impressive player. And he was someone being courted by Colorado. UNC kind of opened things up late there. But if you just, like, watch him, he is just so impressed. And you look at it and it's like Virginia Tech hasn't had as talented of a linebacker since like, I can't even name what like Tremaine Edmonds, you know, I know Dax was insanely highly rated, but the things and Terry Wiggins is more of an outside linebacker. But it's like he's just so impressive and like every bit of his rating is deserving.

1:06:49 And, you know, to have a shot there, not only have a shot, but I think he was even saying he did his commitment on the CBS Sports college football show. But he was like, you know, I was able to get down to Virginia Tech. I was not considering them before James Franklin. He's like, now that I've been here, like if I had been here, like, maybe I would have considered them. I don't know how true that is, but it was just interesting that it's like I was kind of talking about it earlier, but just like opening up, like James Franklin opens up the door. And then once these guys are on campus, it's like you're able to merge those two things that, you know, I guess the one thing that has been working for Virginia Tech has been the campus, the atmosphere, the fandom. But it's now you're merging it with a very serious head coach that's going to come after you.

1:07:36 And to get a guy like Terry Wiggins, I think he's just like, he is so good. Curtis, who was your, who was the guy that you circled and said, all right, that that's the guy that I'm most excited about? Well, when everything started coming down and it's probably just being old, it was Messiah Mickens because you mean Virginia Tech fan of as long as I've been a fan. You start hearing top rated running back in the state of Pennsylvania, it goes to KJ every time. And then you look at the kids, Bill, 510 to 10. I mean, yeah, he's got to learn the game. But running back, running back is one of those positions where legitimately you can say he could probably play this year or next season without any issue.

1:08:24 We already saw Jeff Everson do it, do it last year. What about Tally? What about you, all those big guys? Which one did you like? Man, you know what I I mean, Usually I would, I would say Wilder just because of how I went and him being would have been the crown jewel of the class and didn't coming back. But for knowing what we need besides offensive line and we're already hitting on that because Brian's talked to us a little bit about it and the piggyback off of what the taste says. I mean, it's the trio of linebackers that they got because if you look at what we, if you look at what we've struggled in as linebacker play, you know, we had Noah Chambers out there as a true freshman this year and we were so excited to see him make plays. He probably shouldn't have been on the field that many plays. You know, he wasn't, he was forced to do that, you know, because we lost the coach and people transferred. And no knock on, no, I think he did a great job. But I mean, when you're a freshman and you're going against grown men and having to play like that because we have no depth and we haven't recruited well in that position, it's tough.

1:09:33 You know, and and sometimes you get your safeties hurt like you radish, because they're having to come down and fight against lineman and tight ends and you know, things like that instead of being able to cover for you. So like what they said, you got Wiggins, you got Harley and you also got Lamar. So you got all three of those linebackers that are very, very if you go watch the tape, they're very and and probably if I just had to pick one, mine would probably be, I hope I'm saying his name, right, Lamar, like it would probably be him just because he's a Virginia kid that was never looking at Virginia Tech. You know what I'm saying?

1:10:13 Like he was, he was gone and you get James Franklin and this kid is known very well by, you know, one, one of my good friends, Dwight Victoria, because he goes to the kid goes to the school. Dwight son went to high school and no disrespect to Virginia Tech from the kid, but he just that's what wasn't a school that he was going to. But when James Franklin comes, he gets you in the door with those kids, you know, and that kids 636-4220 already. Come on, man. Like that's the kind of linebackers that we need to get us back to where we where we need to be as far as defense. So I've been kind of shaking my head at some of these offensive highs. But if the defense shakes out like I think, I think, I think some stuff will look good.

1:11:03 Yeah, the one that that was kind of standing out to me was, was was Tyson Harley and a couple reasons there. I feel like he's looking at his tape man. He he pops off, you know, looks like he's probably going to play more of an edge role, I would imagine at this level. You know, we'll see if, if, if he ends up landing at one of the linebacker spots, but I, I kind of see him being more of an edge player and I think he'll, he's going to make some noise. But also one of the things that when you look at Virginia Tech recruiting, you know, I already talked about Woodbury Forest earlier. One of the, one of the schools in that, in that, in that Catholic triangle there in Maryland that we've in DC area we've struggled to get in with is Gonzaga. And this is a Gonzaga kid.

1:11:55 So that, that to me is, is stating that, you know, with Franklin, there's not really, you're not locked out anymore. And, and, and maybe this helps, you know, long term, looking at some of the, the downstream channels, maybe we get back into Verina in a, in a consistent way. That's another school where we've been kind of locked out of for a, for a good while for, for Virginia Tech recruits. A lot of UVA kids, couple got kids going to West Virginia. You know, there's been guys kind of jumping here and there. So it it's nice to see us get a kid from from Gonzaga, highly rated kid, very talented kid, somebody that's going to be able to contribute to the defense. I think pretty early.

1:12:36 Because when you look at guys that are pass rushers and things like that, that's a position where you can come in on the defense and play pretty quick. That that that position in cornerback. Usually you can get guys on the field pretty quick. So I imagine we'll see a little bit of Tyson Harley in in 26, but he'll definitely, I think make make an impact by the time we get to 27. Also, just quickly, not like you could go down the rabbit hole as much as you want, but like with these schools and opening up doors with James Franklin, but like I don't want to mention Wiggins too much more, but goes to Coatsville. The number four overall recruit next year is from Coatsville. Offensive tackle, 5 star guy, like 6A powerhouse in Pennsylvania. A lot of good talent there.

1:13:22 Obviously Terry Wiggins one of them, but like you can go up and down the list in terms of where guys are coming from. Obviously Virginia Tech is has the green run pipeline with three guys in this class, couple guys from the previous class, but a lot of schools that you're looking at and you're like, yeah, it's great. They got this really good prospect for the cycle, but it's also opening up the door for future cycles as well. Curtis, you back with us. I know you were. Popping them out there, I'm in and out. I'm having issues left and right. It's like a man Alabama or something right now. So I don't know what's going on with the Internet. Here we just we just talked about about Tyson Harley a. Little bit.

1:14:06 Oh yeah. Oh, I heard it. I just can't see anybody and like my screen's freezing every time I click away from it. But mate, let's discuss this and I want to go back to the offensive line because we I feel like it might have been over recruited. Do you see any of those guys potentially flipping the size of the ball because you got guys like I'm pretty sure buddy Wagnam and then Benjamin is Akua. It's a Curtis pronunciation right there. Smaller, more compact guys could could we some of these guys go over to the defensive tackle room, even though we did have a couple really good lineman come in in this class. Yeah, I don't know. With Azuka, it's interesting because like he's such a big athlete.

1:14:49 Like I believe like he was playing defensive tackle for his high school team. I think he had a pick 6th seal the national championship game. He's also a heavyweight wrestler. Like he's just a very athletic dude. But I think like the plan for all of them is keep them on the offensive side. I know that there was, I think, some speculation with Garrett Witherington, the Kentucky flip, he's like 65290. That's what he's listed as. People were wondering, will he be flipped to the offensive side? Like the plan for him as well is like interior defensive tackle. I think a lot of these guys kind of have their positions kind of locked in for now. Sounds good, Shelton.

1:15:35 Anything you want to ask How you've been quiet here? I mean anybody in person? I mean it's kind of crazy because Shelton, if y'all don't know. Shelton is a St. Chris alum. 2 private schools from Richmond. Yeah. Were. Any of those like I mean, my father-in-law saw the Benedictine kid play the state championship and I and I and I mentioned he's like the kids massive to be playing at private school level. But Sheldon, anything on that? Well, you mentioned St. Chris, Mama Mater. I'd love to see if we could, if not flip Darius Gray out of out of Richmond, maybe a couple years later down the road in the portal we can get him back.

1:16:20 But yeah, it is interesting. You know, I, I I've talked a lot about, you know, some of the issues with, you know, Virginia high school football coaching and development. You know, the overall rates of blue chippers being drafted in Virginia has been pretty poor the last few years. So I like for that to change. I don't know if Mattea has any insights on, you know, just what the overall crop is in terms of Virginia high school football talent. Like, you know, do you think it's better than it has, better, you know, talent wise than it has been in the past? And you know, specifically like what sort of regions of the state you feel like are kind of most ripe for the targeting for Vt? Yeah, I think it's definitely changed a lot since I first started covering recruiting.

1:17:02 Obviously the 757 used to be massive. I think, you know, the power is kind of spread out there. I think there's a lot more talent in Northern Virginia, which when I first started wasn't the case. Obviously, Richmond has its guys. I think, you know, again, Richmond has been a successful area that you kind of want to lock in on, stick with Northern Virginia and then you know, there's going to be guys from the 757 every single cycle. But I will say, like I think I, I might have even said it on here, like the last couple cycles I felt were a little weak, but I felt this one was like significantly stronger than the previous ones.

1:17:45 Yeah, it feels like we were. This class was a lot deeper. You saw, I think like more a lot more 4 star guys in the in the 10, you know, top ten in this class. And I think we've seen in the in the last couple cycles as well. And obviously, you know, being able to get get Tommy water at the at the back end of that, that top ten I think was important just just for showing that we can pull pull top ten in this state. I think you're looking into 27. I'm hoping we can get at least, you know, maybe two or three in that Virginia top 10. Brian, Brian, we Got to Wilder and Fat Rat are both in the top 10.

1:18:26 Yeah, yeah, He did it up at 10, didn't he? You're. Right. He did it up at 10. Yeah, so. Let's get 3 next time though. There we go. Let's. Get Let's get one top five or two. I want to ask you this, Matei, because on signing day, I mean, it was awesome, right? The flips, the kids that we didn't see coming signing. How much of A scare did James Franklin put into Michigan? Because those 3 Virginia kids who were supposed to sign pretty early in the day, it just kept getting pushed back and pushed back and and pushed back to the savion hitter up in Louisa County here, right, right. You know, northwest of Richmond.

1:19:07 He didn't sign until the next day. Yeah. Was that just an all out Franklin Bliss to saying you know what, why not? I know the, I know a lot of people are looking into the header news and saying Virginia Tech. I think there was some other forces there too, some other big time schools. I think Ohio State was in the mix. Tennessee had been trying forever. So I think that was a little bit of it. Travis Johnson was very real. James Franklin wanted him. I was telling you guys before the show, like I think it was around like 240, five, 3:00 and we thought, you know, basically we thought it was completed.

1:19:50 The announcements were going to come out, but then the Travis Johnson news started to come out. Certain things happened there that opened the door for Virginia Tech to kind of get involved. There were serious conversations. And I think ultimately he decided to stick with what he knew. But I think that would have been, you mean talking about a top five guy in state? He's very, you know, legitimate wide receiver. Bringing another guy in like that, I think would have been a huge message to Virginia. Just moving forward, so very real there. And then Andre Clark as well, another Virginia guy out of Richmond. There's some smoke there as well that Virginia Tech was involved.

1:20:33 But I think that one was less drama than the Travis Johnson one. Close, close. close tally. Shelton Brown, Anything else that is, is because I know what I'm doing. I'm literally going up and down the recruit list and I'm going up and down some notes I've made and it's like, go ahead. I was just going to say, are you think, are you starting it now with the, with the, with the higher announcement, are you starting to think who's our quarterback going to be next year? That's where that's where my head's out. So he's probably got 3 text messages already. We'll see. Is is Beau Purbulla available?

1:21:14 Let's let's make that phone call. What do you live in Missouri? Who knows you? Live in Missouri. Is on the money nowadays if you ain't playing for the national championship or even sometimes if you are playing for the national championship. Depends on the money, so who knows. You got to look at the roster. You got to look he is a now the big thing with him is your PA kid. He is not a Midwest kid. He is like 1617 hours from home. And I know money's a lot, but he made a good amount of coin this year. I I mean, and he played good until he got hurt. I mean, it's if, if Mattel, you just listen, if something happens, you text us next week, OK. So we can like be fully prepared for it. But we we've got time and we've talked just about every kid here.

1:22:12 I want to ask your opinion on this because obviously Penn State is still, regardless what anyone says, north of Blacksburg, north of Richmond, Penn State is still going to be our primary rival in getting recruits. Matt Campbell, Mountain Union guy, coached in Ohio, been out in Iowa for years now. We've already stole a couple of their heavy hitters in that region. Can he? What do you think's going to happen there? Because it's not his foray to recruit four and five stars or get top 25 classes.

1:22:54 He and somebody will say we hadn't had the budget, but it's like, but still, they're still, we didn't have the budget. We were getting Top 40 classes. Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting because he also brought his GM over from Iowa State. I have a lot of respect for Matt Campbell. Like he was someone that I felt like was involved last search, the one before, like a, you know, kind of a dark horse name that could make the leap to Virginia Tech. But I've always admired him from a distance. I think he's a great coach. He does a lot with a little and he's basically being given like an entire war chest to work with now. So it's going to be interesting. Obviously he's going to have to make a lot of inroads there. I think we saw with the Terry Smith retention making him the highest paid non coordinator.

1:23:45 I think he's getting like 2,000,000 per year over four years or something like that, which is just insane. And I know a lot of that is to kind of prevent the pillaging from Virginia Tech on Penn State's roster, but I think that will play a role in it as well. But I think, you know, it's going to be interesting because, like, he really hasn't. I think most of his recruiting classes were in the 50s to maybe 60s. And he's been able to really develop guys. But he's going to have to assemble a staff that not only has, you know, coaches that he trusts, but recruiters that can open those doors in those areas. And I think he talked about it and said, like, Toledo wasn't too far from the footprint, but it's going to be a different game going up against James Franklin.

1:24:31 And it'll be really interesting to see. Like, I still think Penn State is, you know, a name brand program, and they'll win their battles. But I think James Franklin definitely evens up the fight a little bit. Yeah, I think that's the big thing that I'm I'm looking forward to is seeing how this thing shakes out. To your point there, you know, Matt Campbell has you know some he's shown a lot of ability to punch above his weight class in terms of the town on his roster very consistently. You know, sometimes 20-30 spots higher than the talent that's on his roster. You know, the question is going to be, can he consistently bring in enough talent to be competitive the way that they want to be in this in the Mid-Atlantic?

1:25:23 Are they going to be able to recruit the same level that they are from Iowa State and then bump that up and up a degree? Because if if, if they're looking to be competitive the way they were under Franklin, he's going to need to get those numbers at least into the top 30, top 25. Obviously, with the war chest at his disposal, that will be a lot easier than it would have been at Iowa State. But you know, they're still kind of remains to be seen what what the full pictures going to look like for him at Penn State and whether or not the roster at Penn State to what degree they have loyalty to Terry Smith and how they feel about the the the Campbell hire relative to what James Franklin can offer here in Blacksburg. Well, the other thing too, in that case is, well, does Franklin, does, does Matt Campbell want them? You can say what you will about you're right, Matei is a development guy, but there is always going to be a guy that just they don't want, like Nope, doesn't fit. What I like to do, I do not want. And sometimes it's very talented individuals. They get pushed out the also the pieces. Say what you want to say about the defensive side of the ball, the offense is shaping up more and more to be pulling Penn State guys.

1:26:48 The defense, Yep, Brent Pryor hadn't been there in four years. But if some of the other stuff that we're seeing comes to fruition and I ain't, I'm not going to say people are asking about things in the chat. When it happens, we'll talk about it'll be a lot of fun to talk about. But if those things come to fruition, Matei, it's it's going to be like, I know what that head coach does. I know his program. I like it. I've developed, I've gotten better. And you know what? He's put a bunch of guys in the NFL in the last 15 years. Yeah, 100%. I mean, that was that was a big conversation point with a lot of the guys that ended up flipping to Virginia Tech from Penn State. They're like we trust his pedigree and putting guys into the league, guys of our stature, you know, the 8 composite 4 stars and other highly rated three stars. But I think it will be interesting. Like one example I would give is that like Matt Campbell was someone that recruited Ethan Grunkmeyer, who I think was a five star quarterback.

1:27:50 And it's like he is able to, like he is evaluating talent to that caliber. It's just he wasn't able to enter those types of conversations before. So what will it look like now that he has more things at his disposal? So I think it's going to be really interesting, obviously, of Jane Franklin that knows everything there is to know about Penn State and we'll see what those battles look like. I mean, it's been heated between fans on the timeline on Twitter. I'm sure it's going to be heated recruiting battles. And I'm, I'm all here for it honestly, like it's about time that there's, you know, some serious battles on the front. And I feel like, you know, a lot of the guys in the past that Virginia Tech has looked at, they've identified guys that have kind of fit their mold that may happen to be like a fringe 4 star or something of that.

1:28:39 But now it's like you're going up against, you know, a premier program in the North and Penn State for, you know, top guys in the state now. So it'll be interesting. Tally Shelton. Anything else on this? So I'll just throw something that will tell you right quick, and I know it's a long way away, but this is what he does and I don't get to talk to him much, so I'm just going to ask him. Looking at the 2027 class of Virginia students, who does James Franklin need to be on right now? Who is a guy that needs to be at Virginia Tech in that 2027 class? I mean, the easiest name to throw out is probably Chris Whitehead.

1:29:28 Six point. Five 230 number one player in the state think he's I think he's a composite 5 star, but yeah. Yeah, he I'm looking, I'm looking at y'all stuff right now. Composite 520th in the country. Yeah, he's, I mean, legitimate offer list already probably has over 30 offers by this point, but he's someone that definitely kind of moved the needle with the James Franklin hiring, like has already been reached out to. There's a lot of talent in the 2027 class. We're just starting to look at it now. But you know, with those official visits that I kind of mentioned, and there's still some 20 sevens on campus too.

1:30:13 Like you have to imagine like how much of A whirlwind this all was. Like you're trying to build out a class, but have enough foresight to say there's some really good players in this state and surrounding states. Let's shoot them an invite, make them come to the Miami game and see what happens. And I think they're able to kind of, as I said, like open the door a little bit. So we'll see because, you know, it's as impressive as it was when you have a two week Sprint and you're able to say the right things and, you know, kind of portray the right things. It's a lot harder when you have to do it for a full cycle. So but you know, to even be in consideration of a guy like Chris Whitehead in previous cycles, you know, if if you were in there, he would probably be heading off to the SEC right away. So guys like that, I'm looking at I, I don't think they're going to win every battle obviously, but to be in the conversation and see what happens like that's what it, that's what it's about.

1:31:08 Good deal. All right, real quick, everybody, because I don't know. Well, we'll all get together, but let me ask you this mate. Did the CFP get it right? And secondly, how's it going to change next year? Because it's going to change next year, clearly. First thought, yes, I they got it right. I know there's like, I believe in my heart that Notre Dame has the talent to play, but like the aftermath from all of that, I'm just like, enough is enough, man. Like it's, it's just crazy. Like the MOU yelling at the ACCI think the the problem is the committee.

1:31:53 It's always been the committee. It's just like the process makes no sense. But in terms of what what they were supposed to do this year, I think they got the field right. You know what in folk Notre Dame, man, they, they have been teetering around stuff forever and the ACC bailed them out during COVID, letting them jump in that they fucking stole our spot in what was it, 2016? I can't remember what bowl it was, but we ended up playing in the freaking Belt Bowl after playing in the ACC championship because Notre Dame stole the spot. So I don't want to hear nothing about what Notre Dame talking about.

1:32:33 I'm just, that's just what I got to say about it. I like Marcus Friedman, but hey, go get your hairpin long and chill out. Man, I, so I know I put this on the timeline. I was all about Notre Dame being in over Alabama. I think Bama had a awful loss against FSU that you just cannot ignore. And then so they had the worst loss of the teams that were kind of looking to sneak in there. And then they got absolutely boat raced by Georgia in that SEC championship game. So those two things for me kind of bumped them down.

1:33:16 I thought they should have been out. I thought Notre Dame should be in. I thought Miami should have been over over Notre Dame. Regardless. So I think they got that part. Right. It's so hard how they got it set up because you know that is not playing in a, in a, in a championship game. Some of the other things, it's almost like you don't want to make the championship because you got a chance to go in there and look bad. So if we even count that. Game, you know the committee fucked themselves because they didn't anticipate the whole Miami not playing in this championship game thing UVA losing to Duke. They didn't anticipate that because they they put JMU in Tulane higher and higher in the rankings every week than these other ACC teams other than Miami. UVA was kind of hovering right there just above them, but they were they were one loss away from being behind them. And I would see if they didn't win the conference outright, they weren't going to be in any way. And then they started, you know, getting sneaky with where they were putting Notre Dame ahead of Miami. They started creeping Alabama up the ranks even though they lost a close Iron Bowl.

1:34:23 Like they gave them credit for losing a close Iron Bowl. Winning bad Auburn team won the iron. Bowl They won the Iron Bowl. That's the thing. You said loss. If they would have lost the Iron Bowl, they wouldn't have been in the SEC Championship. I'm saying that it was a close, close win. They win. Auburn had the loss against in the Iron Bowl. Yeah, anyway, what my my point being they they moved them up despite it it only being a close win in the Iron Bowl. Shelton. They they put themselves in a bad situation where if UVA lost, they were going to have to make some some weird decisions and they were going to get screwed either way and they screwed themselves because of the way they set it up.

1:35:09 Yeah, I think the two big things that people are frustrated by is obviously 1. Notre Dame, Miami and then two, Alabama. Like mate was saying, it's not, it's not, you know, putting Miami in over Notre Dame and you could have a reasonable argument for either team. Obviously, I think most people would say Miami because they beat Notre Dame head ahead. It's the fact that the committee decided to switch their seeds a week after both teams did not play for absolutely zero reason. I don't know what the justification for that would be, but they don't seem to have a clear process to where they stick by and then Alabama not moving down at least even one seed after getting trounced by Georgia in the in the title game. I saw STAT earlier a few days ago that said that Alabama was one of I think maybe 20 something conference championship losers that did not that did not, they were the only one of 20 some teams that lost a conference title game and they did not move down a seed in the past four years.

1:36:05 So that is pretty suspicious and I it's not a good look for the committee. So big picture, I think you know, my, my basic take of the committee is like, I think it's a massive conflict of interest. Having a playoff is essentially being run by a television network that also owns the rights to the conferences that are being in said playoffs. So I think the structurally, I think we got to look at more structural issues if you want to solve this problem. But it's it's a mess but. Here's the biggest thing, the team that they have the most money in this conference, they have the most money invested in, amazingly has the most teams in.

1:36:45 They effectively their product. If you did this in the business world, you'd go to antitrust court and probably lose billions upon billions of dollars. But it's OK in college football, it's an antitrust suit waiting to happen because Alabama really shouldn't be in. There are three loss team. Everybody's like, well, they have like the best win. They also have the worst loss of any of the 12 teams in. They have the single worst loss. If this was any other conference, that team would have been shoved out the second they lost on Saturday. It's a conflict of interest. It is antitrust lawsuits that should be coming out to wazoo from these other conferences. They just don't have the balls to do it because there's no way. Like you just said, Shelton, they are running this playoff committee.

1:37:28 They run the show. They're probably telling who they want in on. So there we go. Never put you. You're right, Wilson, You don't ever put it in the committee's hands. Matei. It's almost been an hour and 40 minutes, man, It's like old times every time you step in here. So it's been awesome. Brian, Shelton, Talley, anything y'all want to hit on the team? Anything you need to hit on before we wrap this up tonight? I'll say one thing, just really, I know we've been going for a long time, but I was listening back to when we were kind of previewing this class and one name I brought up, T Ron Richardson. I was like, that's the guy.

1:38:14 He's way better than a three star stick by that today. Go back and listen to that if you're curious. But favorite of the cycle. So I'm just going to leave that there. Kind of put a bow on the clock. Flip flip at the end. Flip, flip, Brian Shelton, tally, anything to hit Mattel with as we get to DOE. I'm all set. I'm glad the chat got to see us react to the Danny O'Brien news in. Real. Yeah, that was crazy. That's why so much fun doing these. Live well. Listen mate, as always man, it is awesome having you join us. We'll try to get with you. It took us a while to get with you last year but you know things happen. Do not forget you can join Vt Scoop 247 Sports 50% off a annual VIP membership where you can see Matei's writing some of his scoops.

1:39:07 You Evan and Colby are doing awesome jobs over there, man. You guys do awesome jobs just putting content out. So shout out to you all on that. I but anyway, we are going to wrap up this episode of the Boundary Corner podcast brought to you by Counts Family Pharmacy in Blacksburg. Brought to you by moments on the mall in Lexington with our guest Matasis. I'm Curtis Wilson. I'm Brian Siegler. John to tell it. I'm John Moss. Visit boundarycornerbt.com to listen to all of our episodes. Go back and look at when he did suck about TR on Richardson, one of the flips from down in Hopewell. Also follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Make sure you are subscribed to our YouTube channel. We really appreciate you guys have been really tapping the subscribe button there also all your favorite podcasts forces. We are on all of them.

1:39:59 As always, we let our buddy Jason Long play us in play us out. Check out Jason Long, music.com. Where you can find where he is playing live, all of his music on Apple and Spotify, his Facebook and YouTube pages. We appreciate y'all listening. We appreciate the chat cuz you guys are on fire tonight and as always, let's go. OK.