POLI 300: Great Leaders of Men (Right Now)

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0:41 Justice initiative is working hard every day in this fight. Please join me in observing a nine. Second moment of silence in the memory of George. Floyd Welcome back to the boundary Corner podcast. My name is Curtis Wilson, I'm Brian seagull. How's it going buddy?

2:01 Well buddy, you tell me you college professor classrooms at 8:30 on a Thursday night and you're ready to go to the bar and they're just keep on hanging out, keep on chatting. Yeah. Yeah, it was one of those where he probably over planned, what he thought he could get in a class and then he kind of got stuck and he's like, I gotta get through this, we got a lab on Thursday, so here we are or those awesome things. Where 15 years ago you would have been like, itchy like did come on I'm gonna go out and have some fun now. It's Already pulling pulling a pretty long long day as it were coming off a little bit of a stomach bug this morning. So, Definitely would have liked it to wrap up sooner than later but here we are running a little bit late but hey, you do what you got to do, right?

3:01 100% man. You have a good weekend, dude. It was pretty good man was pretty good. We stuck around here did a little this a little that actually went over and hang out with the neighbors for a little while on Sunday. They they got one of the above-ground pools putting their backyard. So had the kids in there enjoying that and you know, sipping the few cocktails having some brisket. So those are good time but you do this weekend. I worked my butt off this weekend. The father-in-law is putting. He wants electricity in his shed. Ed and so did he, you know he works out there he made us a picnic table him and my wife worked on that but he needed a trench dog.

3:45 Lucky for me, he got put on trash Duty. Yeah, trench Duty lucky for me. His neighbor, who's doing the electrical work, was able to get a ditch, which so the majority of it, they got cut with that. But the little crevices about 1:00, I'm cutting the grass. Saturday, jammed, his music having fun ring rings. He's my father-in-law. Hey, what's up? I need you. All right, I'll be right over. And then subsequent part of the day, Saturday, part of the day Sunday. I'm digging trenches with a pickaxe. Shovels post hole digger? So, needless to say, I got some good workouts in this weekend, I had some cocktails with the neighbors on the cul-de-sac, well Saturday night, dinner club and but just a nice normal weekend went to the liquor store, start reloading The Liquor Cabinet.

4:34 All right. Talking up, got to, but rolling into summer, rolling into, hopefully a college football. Season got a stock up, get everything back as it needs to be. So, you know, somebody says they want a certain cocktail. You're ready to roll. Absolutely, man. That's what it is. So yeah, the thing at the covid-19 crisis is I was starting to build the bar up back in February and March and then when it came, I hadn't been to the liquor store but you know things are changing. Day for the better. Thank goodness and got there got some Gin some rum and some vodka got to go back and get definitely a few.

5:14 Oh and some ginger beer was making, by the way. Got a new cocktail for you to try. Southern Fried Moscow. Mule replace your lime juice with limey. Very good cocktail. Okay. All right, buddy. Well yes sir, it was. Well let's get to it, man. In the last. Even days since Sunday. The Hokies have had three football commitments. Oh man, we're getting into their first before we get into a few other things. Let's start with the first one. Which was the Friday that we dropped our podcast. We knew it was coming with Jalen, but you know, we just, you know, you got deadlines, you got to keep a schedule going, so we missed it, but we missed it. But we knew it was coming down the pike, and we were You know about his confidence.

6:06 One can be heading into into that recording session but you never want to put something in the car to head of the horse as it is. So we kept that out last time and here we are. Now we can celebrate this go-round so we do say it. I'll say it man. Brothers play for Virginia Tech. Always have always will Jalen Stroman, 612 me, I think you should be classified as an athlete at 190 out of patriotism. At high school notes Ville composite 3-star. 24/7 has him three right on the verge of a for obviously younger brother of poke. Great NFL Guy, Greg strowman.

6:50 It's a hell of a land in state player. Keeps the brotherhood's going and Brian you picked this tape out. What do we get in this guy? All right, so the big thing that we're going to talk about with, is this comparable, so he does not compare to Greg. He Compares probably more to Terrell Edmunds. Allow anybody else? He's a versatile guy. He's a guy. That is a natural safety, but can play Corner in a pinch. He's a guy that can fly around but also lay a thumping on you. So, I mean, I think just that sighs coming out of high school. I think, as you said, Composite 3 star but he's going to be, he's a guy that's trending closer to a 4. If you look at the actual measurables and potentially, you know, a consensus for.

7:38 But I think some of the competition that he played in high school and things of that nature. Some of the more rivals in the ESPN or not giving him quite the look that I think a 24/7 is so I think that's probably one of the downsides of the, of the composite ranking here being a lot lower than what his 24/7 score. Or is I think ultimately 24/7. He's going to be kind of that tweener between a 3 and a 4 and that's probably where his actual skill level is like I said he's a versatile player before you even talk about what he can do on the offensive side of the ball. So it's nice to have another brother, but it's also nice to get a guy like this.

8:19 And again, another Trend that we're seeing, man, versatile players on offense, versatile, players in the secondary on defense. Yep, you mentioned it before something. J Hamm and it seems like that he's In for, as he wants guys, that could possibly do multiple things which to me, you know, some people say we'll get the guy that can do this for best. When you're bringing in the versatile guys, with where we are on the depth you figure out in the first year year and a half. You know what Jaden looks like. He'd be a great Rover but on the other hand, hey wait a minute and he can press, he's got the body man, let's put him at, let's put him corner and let him physical some guys up. So really like that. But hey, Brian the hope. He's weren't done, buddy.

9:01 No, they were not. So second on the list there. We got a few days later, chance, black commitment. Absolutely chance. Blacks out of the PowerHouse down in South Carolina, dormant 3 star running back. But you look at his tape, he's like another one of your favorite guys, that's on the current roster Blackshear, he is a 0w. He is an offensive weapon. A lot of folks kind of questioning. You see a speed is versatility. How is he a three-star? And I felt like I've read somewhere and run quickly from wrong but he hasn't went to many camps. He's kind of not out there, not promote himself.

9:44 He's just kind of like I'm playing football. I'm going to go. Yeah, that's a big thing. Especially when you're talking about a Robbins rating that's going to be lower. If they're not in those camps saying with ESPN to a point also, N is not. They don't update their rankings very often. So once your kind of, you know, pigeon-holed and less, you see some really big UPS in your offer list. You're probably not going to see a significant bump in your ranking. So but yeah looking at the tape we're talking about a guy that looks similar to what blacks years bringing to us, you know, hopefully this year once he gets that waiver I mean you got a guy that can catch catch the ball in. He can run routes but he's also good between the tackles, he can make guys missing the whole, he can make the linebacker Miss and get to the next level.

10:38 So these are all big things for us and we're talking about a guy that can make some plays will probably use them, some in the Jet Sweep game. You probably even early on his career even if he doesn't come out and having every down roll. Yeah, I'm not say the one thing I can't watch film. Like you, I don't have that. I'm there, certain things, I miss is just being a casual fan, but one thing that you do, Not miss on tape, is this kid has some Wheels. Man, this guy has some speed. I'd love to see what he clocks. I'm guessing around in the 44, but what I noticed a lot was the cut if you noticed at least, what I was noticing again. It's not my trained eye brown, but they were running some of those sides own plays and that's what I call them. They're like the Zone read, but it's essentially he staying parallel. And then, as soon as a hole opens up cut, and when you see him make that cut, he's not afraid of contact. Numerous times on his film.

11:30 Like there's a guy in front of him. He's like, all right dude, boom. He does not shy away from that when he sees his Lane he goes so tells me very, very, very good. At reading the lanes making decisions. And again, I'm still trying to figure out how he's a three-star than not going to camp and kind of keeping a low profile. Yeah, it looks like we're probably what you're talking about is something like a an angle or an outside outside zone, so where the target is going to be a little bit wider than what you see with your Inside Zone, which is the common element of Zone read offense. So you know, I think I think what like you're saying there, he's got the speed to get to the edge but he can make you miss. He's got good wiggle but he's got Breakaway speed to. So I think you know he's got all the skills whether he's able to do all of that, in the elite level is yet to be seen, but you got to love the skill set that he's bringing in absolutely but Brian, we weren't done, but we were not Done. No, we weren't matthäus Carol weeks, idn at a Gilman. That's a stretch for stretch.

12:37 Gilman pretty good. High school football program up in Baltimore, Maryland, 63 220. He commits Sunday and I got it. I'm gonna go ahead on the Shelf. This guy, whoever did his video that was crisp. And you know, this guy again, three-star guy. But you see the tape and you hear about some of the other things he does. I think he's a guy that could wind up before if we play a season. Yeah, definitely, I'm looking at the tape. I mean, you know, he's he's really got some good things is very to the table and it's really going right along with some of the things we've seen TNT start to focus on. He's got both height and reach.

13:23 He's quick off the ball. He's got the ability to bend and work leverage which probably comes from the wrestling background that he has. And as soon as I hear wrestling background, I'm thinking great leverage and really good conditioning, and it's two things you like to see in the defensive end 100%. I'm also think, I think you think leverage also think tackling, you think the way these guys when they practice, you know, and they're being taught rustling, you have to learn how to get to God down right now. So, we have his video highlights, he literally like flip the guy so, but again, it's he kind of has the whole it's, you know, he's athletic. He's already got a good frame. He's already got a little weight on that frame. He can bend he's a multi-sport athlete. You talk about the conditioning where you feel. If he even puts on 20 pounds with that wrestling background, it's not going to take him long to get in playing shape it to 40, verses gaining that weight and then trying to figure out how to play with it.

14:21 Because essentially, those guys have to cut weight like crazy and gain weight to make classes and stuff, you know, 18 offers, you know, Boston College, Louisville pit, South Carolina to name a few But again, I'm seeing it more and more defensive end. Brian were taken, nobody's under six foot to know. So, we're going with, we're going with length and we're going with guys that have a quick First Step Off the Ball. Which I mean kind of Falls in line with what we've been talking about with kind of how we finished out. The, the 2020 class and kind of we're recruiting has been trending ever since then absolutely man. So three big pickups, a few To go, people were nervous. Oh God, we're going to be in the 70s again. Oh God, we're going to be at the bottom of the ACC again. Boo, boo, boo, 42 now 43.

15:19 We're creeping up with some very good prospects on the horizon. If it attentively go, the Hokies way. All right. Yeah, I'll be the big thing, buddy. Is that, you know, when you look at recruiting, a lot of the people in front of us, weren't just based on the average core weren't even ahead of us. Some of them were behind this, but they just had a volume volume helps, and we're getting volume now. So, the volume is definitely, finally, working in our favor here, with getting three big pickups back-to-back, especially coming on the heels of the Jalen Jones recruitment that happened just before last episode. So pretty big stuff. Very nice and definitely trending upward.

16:02 I ate Brian The boys are coming back to town, baby. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. All right, voluntary workouts can commence in Blacksburg into this week that's what starting strength and conditioning looks like. They are playing it very safe with small cohorts, following very stringent public guidelines. I don't think me you or any of our fans have probably any issues with that. And then what Mark Rogers said, just and again, makes Common Sense. The first and foremost priority is the Health and Welfare of the student-athletes, but Brian something happened today. I hope you called it on the news. What's going to happen Friday?

16:48 I did not catch a what's happening, Friday, buddy. We're going to phase to phase two. All right? So these everybody except for for downtown r-va and Nova, right? That's it. So that kind of tells me that areas like the locker room more, common areas, probably the workout facilities itself are, probably going to be opening sooner rather than later. Because if you cut the read the articles about what's going on, they're going to be doing these workouts in the beam Our barn, which is a great thing to have, they can get the doors open. So you kind of have more of an open space than the indoor space to protect these kids. I'm sure there's they're going to be getting the test talking about 25 to 30 guys, coming back, which a lot of people are saying they think it's going to be the guys in Blacksburg.

17:36 That makes sense. They're the easiest to access, they're the easiest to get the test see if anybody has it if so quarantine. Mm. And is the guys start coming back, get on the test. If you clear set, a timeframe for you to come on in. So I think getting the guys in the weight room is going to be quicker is going to happen sooner rather than later. It's just kind of Common Sense. Yeah. And I think that's going to be a good thing for for everyone involved. I know there's other schools that are working on similar timetables right now whether it's a week ahead of us are week behind us. I'm pretty. I know pretty much. No one was allowed until yesterday June 1st I guess the earliest that that anyone could do anything based on what the NCAA had in place, but now that we're starting to open up some of these avenues for getting kids back in the weight room.

18:30 I think most of it at least initially is going to be those voluntary type activities and then we can maybe work towards some more organized or quasi organized activities. Once we start getting more guys back on campus and in the NCAA starts to evaluate what that's looking like. So yeah, I think that's going to be the big pieces, probably really over the next three weeks is how the school's come back, how the schools are doing it. And then, I think what me and you kind of stated we've been kind of hanging around that is I think you're going to see two separate training theories. I think you're going to have a period in July two or three weeks and then potentially either a three-week fall camp for a full fall Camp. I think they're going to let the I think they're going to open up some Avenues to where it's going to be not going to say fair, but it's just going to be more just more just just smarter like let the kids kind of build up to get there. And they're normally working out all the time. They have been doing this independently, but not around their strength and conditioning coaches, something else and you talk about the different situations in coach Fuente made a great point about this thing.

19:45 It's not a uniform situation. Every Single place on every single campus has different Dynamics. There can be no one set way that it has to be done. And I think that's the truth because I'm sure there are some schools that are flying more kids in than others. So but again, we've been talking about it signs are pointing to good things in the fall. Yeah. And I think you want to set, you know kind of a A benchmark like a low-end of like, this is what minimally has to happen. And then from within that decide how you want to approach it, depending on your facilities and things that you can do on your own campus, but it's like I said, it's just really good to finally get moving towards that and as you stated about fall Camp, you know, I think it would be good to do like a maybe a 15 or 16 day period with maybe two off days.

20:46 Where you're working on installation and strength, and conditioning, as an organized team, and then maybe having a week or two break, and then rolling back into a four-week fault Camp before the season starts, that would, that to me would be an ideal situation because you could use the first two weeks for installation and kind of getting back into the swing of things before you start going, you know, hammering it each other and pads and fall Camp. So let me ask this. Brian honest honest assessment If this happens this year, do you think there will be certain football programs that will push and say, hey, we think the beginning of July would be great for a two-week, minicamp along with spring practice. You think this will be something that's pushed at the NCAA and again, how tough it was to be for the NCAA to say, no, when literally, this is their one of their biggest cash cows. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if that's something that they could put forward.

21:45 You know. There's been a large push for and I don't know why because it doesn't really apply to a lot of other sports, but then there's been such a large push with football for kind of the month of June and July to be off-limits in the month of Prima pretty much the whole month of December, unless you're in a bowl, being off-limits for for these football type activities, whether it's got to do. Do with exams or wanting to provide some sort of buffer, but it would be nice to finally move towards. Essentially the sport is year-round. Anyway, let's treat it like a year-round sport I agree with you, man. All right, well guys, what we're going to be doing today is just a little something different more, NCAA holistic than hokey focused, couple weeks ago, CBS Sports and their college football teams put together, a ranking of the top 65 coaches in division.

22:47 One along with Notre Dame coach Fuente is clearly on there. We're going to discuss him in just a moment here. We're going to About name the CBS Sports top 10, but then we're going to name hours because clearly we don't agree with everything they say. So we're going to start out here with coach for Wednesday's ranking. Brian, you saw it? I saw it. I'll go ahead and make the announcements. He was ranked 37, boo. Okay, Brian. Clearly, there is something upsetting you here. It's upsetting me too, but since you're booing over there, what Actly. What do you think this man should be at. All right, so, I mean, I don't, I'm not calling him a top 25 coach coming off of the 2018 and 2019 Seasons that we had. But, but my man has not fallen out of the top 30, okay? I'm going to put in, that's a 2829. Would be a fair raking, so he's about 8 to 10 positions lower than he should be in my opinion.

23:54 All right. Okay. I'm with you. I think he's a 28 and you're ready for it. I got this. I got the dissertation here. All right, go for it. Bring it to me. Here are the coaches that are currently head of him, that have no damn business. Being said, there's for Chip Kelly to give it to me. Yeah. I mean at some point what he did in Oregon can't count anymore or at least not count as much as it is right now. Alright next Lane kiffin Ole Miss he's already left one d. One job he got fired from another on the tarmac and he doesn't have exactly the best reputation in the world. So how is he ranked ahead of both coasts? It is successful.

24:48 He can make us Sunbelt team kind of disa, interesting. Alright next, you ready? Yeah, I like the guys at human being good. Coach Russ, start Scott Frost. He's not a 15 with Nebraska. They had some players on that team and I know he's installing his culture there and he's in, and he's in a pretty good conference. But 9 and 15, you're going to put him ahead of our coach. Yeah, that's the problem I have. I feel like those guys are getting way more benefit of the doubt for what they've done. Five years ago, yet Foo is getting zero credit for what he's done. In the whole five years. He's been in Virginia Tech. Plus what he did before that, they're pretty much saying, well you had a, you had one really bad season in one really bad. Recruiting class.

25:34 All right. We're dropping him fruit. Alright, next harm. He's 15 and 11. Yeah, you know he was seven and six his first. Here. And he was quite a second eight and five last year. Hold on. Yeah. No, not not quite yet. I think her mom, you know, maybe he's the one people want to argue with me but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire to his credit. He's trending upwards, both in recruiting and with on the field product, but I don't think that denotes moving him to where he is on the list. I think. I think we need to still operate a little more cautiously until he's shown.

26:19 He can prove himself as a coach at that level. I mean, he's still establishing his own culture and what he likes to do and I don't know if you know this or not but you play to win the game. Ha ha ha! Love it. Brian. Love it ready for the next one? Yep. Mike Norvell. He needs to prove it. You're putting him. Above a coach at the D1. P5 level, that essentially has won games and you're sticking them ahead because he went to Florida State. Come on Mike Norvell is a good coach and he's probably going to succeed pretty well at Florida State, but just to jump out of the gate and say, oh yeah. Yeah.

26:59 I mean, I think you have to really have a great pedigree if you're moving to a power 5 school and you don't have a power five resume as a head coach and I don't think his previous resume quite justifies, the jump, just because he got hired to a power, five job. Yeah, he essentially in the credit, Mike Norvell, he essentially walked into what Justin Fuente had built that Memphis and he did built upon, I'll give him that credit. It but you're going to a whole different ball game now. So yeah, I wouldn't mind him at like 35 but not ahead of Coach Fuente currently. All right, you ready for the next one and this is one of my favorites. Tom Herman at Texas with all the bleep and talent. All that Talent.

27:45 He's had. He's averaging the same number of wins our head coaches. How he's had one ten win season way. Second coach Fuente said one ten win season hold on. Yeah. I mean, it seems like there's a, some sort of curve here, where if you coach for a blue blood program, by default, that makes you at least five positions higher than what your actual ranking should be high. Alright, next, I am Bronco Mendenhall. That's that's the controversial one that I think people are going to be talking about a little bit more. Well, here's where pisses me off. He is played to win.

28:27 Like six times he's beat him once and literally he needed the greatest single performance in the UVA school history to do this and it's not even questionable. If you look at Price Perkins performance in the game, that was the greatest single performance of any player and you put him above, and it's like y'all. If we look at these two teams, yes, UVA was in shambles. But okay, how do you put them above a guy? He can't beat without. Out an unreal performance. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about the big picture. We're still talking about consistently Virginia Tech out recruits UVA. Consistently Virginia, Tech has beaten a Bronco coach UVA team relative to a Fuente coached Virginia Tech Team. So at some point that has to matter, it's like we're glossing over everything else because of recency bias and recency bias. Aw man.

29:24 Alright, the last one I had the last Ooh, I have I love pit. Pat, Fitzgerald Northwestern. He's won games there. But no coach in the top. 25 should have a three and nine Seasons. I love the guy. He's a hell of a coach in the top 25. Go look at all the other guys there Brian nobody's ever had a three and nine season this for into their 10 years. Yeah. I mean I'm with you on that you can't. I don't have a problem with dip into maybe like a 5 win or even maybe a for win. If you had some really bad injuries on a year that you were already predicted to kind of be rebuilding anyway, but you know, Virginia Virginia Tech most years can you know, just line up and get three wins without even really putting forth an effort.

30:12 So it's really hard to go out and say three wins is impressive. No matter who you're playing 100%. All right. In the last one and it's one of those really Arts the crap out of me Mack Brown. Well, hold on, first of all, he was ranked 42 last year. He is now pop 20 with a seven and six record, what? Like I don't And if you want to put him at 30 because he did do a very impressive performance but also similar to Scott Satterfield who I do admire, he essentially got to take over a team that had quit. If you have some motivation for some guys, you can get them to play hard and they do have some talent and Carol, imma you can win to say it guys. Gonna jump 22 spots to the top 20 with a seven and six record. You have any other than the recruiting that we're talking, then we'll talk about, I'm sure more a little bit more at some other point, I mean, what is Mac done in, you know, the time he's been there that Fedora wasn't already doing before he lost the locker room.

31:17 Exactly 100% in. That was the key, lost the locker room. And here's the one thing that I'll say in its recency bias for you, what coach Fuente had to do is come in after a legend and alleging that hadn't Lost the locker room since we prank just kind of lost his fastball, right? Yeah. He comes in and he starts winning. 19 games, is first two years. He has that dip, the third year to six. And then, yes, did you game happened? But I have a question Brian. And this is why I do put Fuente about 28 right on the cusp of the top 25, how many coaches below him or above him, could go to and to and crap that happened to that Duke game and then you win More games and you lose three literally on the last possession of each of those games.

32:08 How many coaches? It's true, man. It's true. It's very few that could really turn that around. And, you know, you can credit or apply the credit to whoever you want to. But at some point, the window was the man at the top, that was making those decisions, whether you give more credit to, you know, Jerry kill coming in or whether you give some adjustments to the way the offensive play calling, Has done after that, especially with placing hooker in the starting lineup, whatever you attributed to it still goes back to the man at the top, making the call. So at some point he has to get some credit for that. 100%. All right, so let's move on Brian. Let's actually go through CBS Sports top 10 just going to name them.

32:53 You can if you want to make a comment more than welcome to because after we do that top 10 we're going to go back and forth with ours. I think some be a lot of fun maybe some I see maybe some other things like. So let's start number 10, Ryan day at Ohio State. It's not horrible based on recruiting and winning, but I just because of how great they recruit. I just don't know how great of a coach Ryan day is yet. I'd like to see what he does with, you know, it won't happen. But I'd like to see what he would do with less Talent. So a couple of these guys, I think we mean you might be talking about Penn State with James Franklin, I'm here.

33:40 All right, eight is Florida with Dan Mullen number seven and this is one to me. I wouldn't put this guy in the top 20 right now. Jimbo Fisher, Texas A&M at dude, literally burnt down Florida State before he left it and I think unfortunately Willie Taggart was not the type of Coach to pick up those type pieces. Then he goes to Texas A&M and he's done, okay? But it ain't like he's in there winning ten, eleven games. Of Nick knocking off coach. Oh no. I mean he's had a slight uptick in recruiting relative to his predecessor and they're giving him a lot of credit for the fact that he won an Atty at Florida State in 2013.

34:23 Yep, that's pretty much it. All right. Number 6 is Kirby Smart in Georgia. Nothing to say with that. Brian Kelly at Notre Dame. Uncle Jewel, number four, I gotta try it. Lincoln. Riley, three at Oklahoma, dabo's number two at Clemson and number one, Nick Saban Alabama, top two, should be no no secret here, after most of our listeners, I would imagine. Well, let's hope not, um, top two for us. I have a feeling may not be any different. So, well, Brian, since I made that announcement sir, I'm going to let you begin this with your number 10 coach. All right, I'm a leadoff.

35:08 I don't think he's in your top ten, but he's in mind. I kept Ryan Kelly in the top 10. He's just just made the made the cut their biggest thing is, I mean he played for a national championship, had his team to the National Championship when with Notre Dame, 243 93, and to record as a head coach, he's had two AP, Coach of the Year Awards, three Conference titles. And I still think You know, they get good recruits but I think he also the product that's on the field, they do play pretty much on par. If not slightly below, what they recruit every year. So it's not like some of those other Blue Bloods where you see, you know, a discrepancy between the recruiting ranking and the output or like some of the other Blue Bloods that just our talent factories that just have have recruit after recruit after a crew.

36:03 They're not quite there anymore, but there's So consistent with their product. That's why I put it in there, got it. All right. My number 10 is probably going to be the biggest jumper. This guy was in the low 30s, but David, Claussen total record is 126 and 119 not the most impressive, but he's coached, here's the places. He's coach Brian, these places? I'm really kind of, kind of, don't care about sports in a way. He's coached it for them. University of Richmond. Hmm, Bowling Green and Wake Forest. He has won at every single one of those stops, and I think that's why I have to put in so high. He essentially has never got the opportunity to coach, essentially, even a high, like a mid-level tier one program, but the guy just wins and he pulls up sets and he beats people and it Richmond.

37:02 He's essentially created the team that won Mike, London is National And ship and and it wake last year, you want to games at week? I mean I see that guy and say, I could go put that guy on a field of a bunch of two and one star guys in any power, five conference. And I guarantee you within a few years, he produced, if you gave him a consistent top 25 recruiting class every year, he could do some damage true. Now let me go back to your Brian Kelly Point prize, just on the outside of me. I think Brian's hit a ceiling. Also think the one thing about Brian, he is kind of slow to make changes and I think with the head coach, the one thing that can put these guys in the top 10s not being afraid and he's made a few changes over the last few years. But I think a couple of them are too late because I think you missed a big window.

37:54 All right, who do you want me to do number 9 or should you lead again sir, I'll let you leave this time. What you got? All right man so I think this house on your list so I'll let you give the win-loss record a little later, but dude I love Loved and Mullins down in Florida and it's not only you talk about his offensive prowess when he was with Florida under Urban, but then dude, how he molded Mississippi State to compete, not just play compete in the SEC West, with the talent, he was getting there. That deserves an absolute tip of the cap. And then how quick he got the Florida program was kind of burning after. After Jim McElwain left, he flipped it around ten win season and then in 11 win season competing quickly, you know fault with Georgia beat LSU a couple years ago fault LSU down in Baton Rouge, I believe this year and damn near got them. But he just can coach whether it's the top talent, or it's the tier below Talent.

39:00 You could have Dan Mullen team. You better be prepared because Cuz that's the type of Kochi is. Yeah, and I'll tell you, you said, you thought I had him in the top ten, he was actually just missed my top, damn it. I was fighting between him and in, Brian, Kelly. All right. Well, yeah. And the only knock I have on him is that, you know, he's doing great things at Florida, but he's doing it, you know, with Florida Rich Talent, getting the best recruits from that area. They are the a school right now especially with the with Florida State being down in Miami being middling, So they are, they are raking in the recruits down there and I think that's definitely playing playing into a factor. That may have shaded me as far as whether to put him or Brian Kelly, and at 10.

39:46 But, but that's where I went. So my nine is actually exactly what CBS has James Franklin. So you must have done some research before the after the draft episode, because you were kind of lower on him. And I told You I was higher on him. So did you do some digging you little biggest of the big things that I looked at as I looked at what he did and Vandy. Okay. And that actually impressed me more because I knew he had some good teams have any, I didn't realize that they were Bowl eligible in the SEC every year, he coached there and he was going Toe to Toe. I looked at some of the new, an individual games going toe-to-toe with some of the big dogs, you know, with severely lower Talent at that point.

40:33 And he showed that he can be a nice recruiter now that he's gotten some of the, you know, the money behind him now that he's a Penn State. So I think, you know, you put those two things together, you know, he can coach and now, you know, he can recruit now, you know, at times he comes off either, sleazier, cheesy all the easy words. He rhymes with those but, and he could potentially take a step off this list, if he doesn't start getting some big wins against. You know the Ohio State's of the world but because he is starting to get the recruits that aren't stacking up against OSU but relative to what I think he is a coach he should start being able to put them down from time to time so I'd like to see them do that with more consistency or I might have to move them down but for now nine got it and he is he's right outside for me too. And it's the big thing is he hasn't gotten the big wins. I know he's beat Ohio State.

41:33 He's better than once, but it's not consistent. But the other piece, what? I think where you talk about him becoming an ace recruiter, is I think he's kind of overlooking dogs and I think you got to still have dogs and I think that's why I put him just outside because I think Stars matter to him a little more now and and there could be some guy. He's that where he used to reveal all you give me that guy. He's a football player where it's like he's that I'll take the four star, he's a little more athletic. All right. So number eight, Brian. Lead the way sir. Alright. Number eight, I've got Kirby Smart. All right, he is Omar little more in 1244 and 12 as a head coach. So he's a smaller sample size than most of the guys that I'm going to have on my list here.

42:17 But you know he was defensive coordinator. When Bama became would Bama is and he's shown aptitude as a head coach. They have been consistently competing for an SEC Championship since he's been the head coach at Georgia. And, you know, he made a big run in the college football playoff of me, not many schools can say that. It's been such a limited Club outside of Ohio State Clemson in Alabama, that any team that can make a Deep Run like that. Got to give them some respect, you know, he does struggle a lot in big games especially against really high caliber competition, like a Clemson or a Bama, but I've like what he's doing and I like the trajectory that teams on all I've got a little high on my list and I'll hit a few other points on that in a few minutes. I got number eight, I got PJ Fleck and, you know, people can make fun of his Row.

43:11 The Boat, the way he dresses. Some of the things he says how he speaks. But mean all that God, does is take programs and flip them from losing to winning really fast. He did it at Western Michigan. He's done it at Minnesota. He's starting to recruit better at Minnesota. And Brian, when I take a look at this guy, we talk about records. He's coached at Western Michigan and he's coached at Minnesota. They ain't the two biggest programs in the world. He's 93 and 70 student 53 and 37. That's pretty impressive. And that's counting and 11 loss in his first year at Western Michigan.

43:53 When they were a dumpster fire. PK flick actually played the NFL a couple of years. She was actually On the 49ers have Madden 06. He's on that game, it's pretty funny but Homer, I think he understands how to build a culture. Another question for me, is what Fleck is Minnesota it? Because he choose to stay there and build it knowing that what he's doing right now. If he does for the next ten years, he'll never have to. He never has to worry about another job a day in his life. Or is there a bigger field out there? So PJ flaking. Number 8, for me, All right. Well, I guess I'll let you go with with your seven, then?

44:36 Yeah. Number 7, Kyle Whittingham with the Utah Utes man, mr. Consistent. He is built Utah into a consistent Pac-12 Contender. Since they essentially were taken in there was so close last year, so close to potentially breaking through the playoff wall his teens. They aren't they. Are not flashy, you know, a lot of running the ball, he has sort of adapted the last few years to run a little bit more spread. But his defense has man, you better be ready to play them because they are going to hit you and they're going to hit you hard. So be prepped on that and I just think he's been doing it so long.

45:26 He's only had like three Bad seasons in place. Has to 15 years of coaching, so that's why I put him at number 7. Okay. Okay. I'm going a little bit of a different route but kind of the same idea that my seven. I'm going Paul crisp. All right, 71 and 35. As a head coach two-time, Big Ten coach of the year. The man has never missed a bowl since he's become a head coach. And the big thing for me is that he is the classic example and similar to Frank in a lot of ways especially Peak Frank that like really overplaying relative to the town your team.

46:13 So, you know, you look at him and he's still on an upward trajectory right now, which is the big thing for me. So ten wins. He's at 10 wins four of the last five seasons. And you know this is a guy that is a you know, a life where it at Madison Wisconsin. So, yeah, I think that's a that's a big thing because he knows the culture and he knows how to build off of it. Absolutely. I'll add a few more things on Paul Christian, a little while. He's a little bit higher for me, Brian, I hear you got for number six. Alright, number 6, G p-- Gary Patterson, whoo. All right, that's it. You brought Gary way up game. It was like at the back end of the teams for, uh, CBS go.

46:54 What you got on Gary, man? Love Gary. All right, so 172 and 70 is a head coach. When we think about tenure, you know, him and I infrared. So the only two guys that have been at the same place since 2000. So he took he took over at TCU at 2,000. Wow. And he's the model of consistency, man. I mean he's only missed a bowl. Three years in the 20 that he's been coaching as a head coach and he's third of the four, third or fourth, in all the totem pole and turn up in terms of recruiting the state talent, but he's consistently played with or ahead of those other teeth, huh?

47:35 Texas, Texas A&M, I mean, is really the only ones that's, that's consistently been ahead of them and sometimes, you know, they've clipped them down. You know, Baylor's been up and down here and there, but TCU has been the model of consistency there. Consistently, you know, second or third in that in that conference if they're not winning it. So you're not I can look at them and see them in the fifth or sixth slot. Most years absolutely couple years ago. Remember, they got T think, Oklahoma RTC, you got Oklahoma and Oklahoma got them back in that championship game. My number six, man, he's a little lower on your list, a little higher on my list Kirby, Smart, a, he's at his alma mater. So there's a feeling that Kirby going to be there. A long, long time.

48:22 And he took, that was a very good program under mark richt And he's taking them. You mentioned it. He's taking them to an elite power program. Pretty quick, it wasn't like a five or six year. Literally was one down 10K year, boom. It's to me that 10 is a testament to the type of Coach. He is, he's a damn good recruiter. He's a damn, good defensive mind. And this year we sort of saw him take a step in the off season. In my opinion, he made some changes on that offense and he went out and got Jamie Newman. I think we're going to see a slightly different Georgia offense. This year where I give credit to the head.

49:02 Coach understanding the Saban model from 10 years ago isn't working to beat the Elite teams anymore. You've got to mix it up, offensive ly so I give him credit for that man. All right, is it my turn? It's your turn. Yeah, you're going to, you're going to take the next. I got number five. I'll give you a coach whole down on the body, the head. Or people always Rebel about how Coach O is on the recruiting Trail. He's just one of those guys that, you know, families, kids just they're just drawn to his first, tenure down at Ole. Miss was just not good at all, but to the kind of guy and you can kind of see it with how he coaches, you see him always running.

49:46 They always show this picture them run around LSU's campus, he kept grinding and he kept grinding and I kind of wonder if a few years ago if you SC. When they put him that interim label, if they feel like they missed but also sit here and think I think coach oh he went home and he is a perfect culture film down state of Louisiana down in the South. He also kind of realized last couple years similar worker bees doing I gotta change some things on offense and he did it last year brought in Joe. Brady good Lord. And that was a hell of an offense.

50:30 So I got coach 05 right now. All right, well I'm going to do a repeat of what you did a little bit earlier for my number five. I've got Kyle Winningham it. Okay? And I've got him by record, 131 and 63. That's so impressive at Utah. Yes it is. So impressive. So he's only missed two bowls and 15 years and much like I was, you know, harping on Gary Patterson. They moved from the Mountain West of the Pac-12. Just like they booed, you know, Mound West to the Big 12 never missed a beat, not exactly were located in what you would call a recruiting, hotbed know who now you tada.

51:10 Does overachieve relative to some of their you know recruiting rankings in terms of the talent that comes out of that state but you wouldn't necessarily call Utah. They were recruiting hotbeds so definitely they over achieve in that spot. And you know this is a guy that spent most of his life coaching in Utah. So he knows the lay of the land and he knows how to find those Diamonds in the Rough. So I think he does a really good job with that and he's also one of the coach, another coach that, you know, I think this up a lot but does a lot with a little There's not a whole lot that's attracting kids to play Utah but yet he's still out there getting it done and he's of late. Seeing some upper trajectory he would relative to his success in those 15 years.

51:56 So absolutely. Gotta gotta love it. Do love coach Whittingham and I don't think I mean I think he's there and I don't think you saw is ever going to let him go. Because you have that consistency. He just ride it, man. All right. Brian, who's your number though? All right, now before we got this is going to be the smallest resume but probably the highest winning percentage, we have on the list Lincoln Riley. All right, haga thirty six and six we match on this one like in Riley's, not for okay. Okay. So what I like to call Lincoln Riley, we're going to call him the quarterback Whisperer. Oh, okay.

52:37 Alright. So this Man's coach, three years, you coach Baker collar and Jayla they've all been drafted. Yes, they have two of them were drafted where Curtis 11? Yeah, yeah. That's that's a big deal. That's a very big deal and he's molded them into a regular season Force. They've lost three games in the regular season in his tenure. And they can really score some points as evidenced. By the way, they run out the scores on a lot of those big 12 defense has, and they're great at getting the most out of that offensive Talent. They really do a good job of getting the ball to their Playmakers and letting them make plays. It is imperative that he gets better against Elite competition because they've made the playoffs three years, but they've lost all three years in the first round. So, yeah.

53:27 He needs to have some success against those high-caliber teams. Like Clemson, Ohio, State and Bama. But I think that he can take the next step. If he keeps going, you know, this is a Mike Leach disciple. So, you know, that they're there all about the offense to get points on the board. So I'd like to see what he can do next. But right now I've got a bit for based on those first Dynamic, three years. He said, absolutely, I'm with you, man. He's probably the most Innovative offensive mind in the college football game right now. Also, he was stepping into some Choose when Bob Stoops essentially, I mean abruptly kind of retired and then Lincoln was named you know, head coach. Because that was remember, it wasn't like directly after it was.

54:15 Actually after those around spring when it happened and it was just kind of like a, who's this young kid? Get. He's a really good OC. But man pops do 20 national championships played for a few more, you know? Oh, this this is going to be this could be bad but he didn't he You to excel, he's actually built on what Bob created there to Oklahoma in the early 2000s. When they had been down for quite some time since which in the 80s but you make a couple points you talk about the big games. He's got to get a comparable defense, he gets one watch out but I also think he's got a growth. There's some games where they are up, you know 23 touchdowns and instead of where you sit there hey dude, get down a little bit, get down, make that other Defense work. And you see them quickly screw up the three and out and there's sled that other team back in, or they can't stop the run. I remember sitting here watching the Kansas State game in the cave last year in Kansas State.

55:15 Literally ran through them like a hot knife through butter. Just like we're going to run touchdown, stop us but what that tells me is with him, he's so focused on his offense. It's probably why he's not three for me. First being for is, he's Gotta learn that. You're not just an offensive coach anymore. You are the head coach, give him credit, he hired Alex Grinch hell of a defensive coordinator, but is he going to take those steps when he's up 17, 34 17, early third to. Hey, let's make this a 7-minute drive. Instead of scoring three plays that you got. You got to have a middle gear, even when you're a Tempo off at you got to have a middle gear where you can say, okay, well, I don't need to use the whole clock, but I need to use a lot of it. You gotta need to start taking my time a little bit more. Sure.

56:07 Go Tempo. Would you get a big play when you feel like you got them on their heels but don't just go fast, just to go fast. Absolutely. Alright, so we're in the top three here for Ian, I will do my number three, sort of the Shocker for some people. Probably did I get Paul Chris, man? You've already mentioned some of the stuff he's done. Here and people are probably going to say that's really hard for him. But the comparative Talent he gets versus where he has to go against against your Michigan's against Ohio, State's, you can spin States and how he's done. I mean, it's insane. There's a huge Talent disparity, but he, competes with those guys.

56:49 And if you remember the Big Ten championship last year, they came Square out and punched Ohio State directly in the mouth. Ohio State came back in one but watching the first half of that game, you kind of thought? Holy crap, are they going to do this? Or they they were reeling. They were really. They had to really Gear Up and figure out what they went to Wisconsin was doing ordered over comfortable. Absolutely. And then you said it earlier, Paul is essentially a culture fit there, he's probably never going anywhere else. He played quarterback for the Badgers in the 1980s as think if either if it Wasn't right before, it was right. After Barry Alvarez took over and started started molding that program into one of those programs of the last 25 years that really was built. And the big thing for him.

57:44 If he ever gets, if he ever gets just slightly more talent, I think Paul Chris, you give him a couple pop 15 recruiting classes with Jim Leonard as a defensive coordinator, man. Ohio, State Michigan, freaking Penn State better hold their pants because a Chris is one of those guys really Miami game. And he freaking random damn score up down in South Beach. Oh, yeah. I don't think he cares, and I think he kind of likes it when some of those flashy big teams he gets to put it on them. And he's always going to bring that that hard-nosed attacking Style with the with the running game. So I mean, you know, that they're going to be bringing that element to the game and they're not going to step off of that.

58:27 Just because, you know, the games out of hand, they're going to, they're going to keep coming at you, absolutely. All right. Who's your 33 big? 000 and, or drop. Okay. Yes sir. Go Tigers, anyway, 56 and 36. Records are not the most flashy record for the guys that are in the, the top 10 here. But what I'm going to point to is kind of the success story of his head coaching trajectory here. So completely failing at Ole Miss completely, he tried to implement that USC style offense and it just it wasn't happening and they weren't Stout enough on defense to overcome those offensive shortcomings, even with some of the talent they had Your to two stints as a interim, head coach with success. Both x 6, + 2 6 + 2.

59:26 And I'm going to answer the question for you. USC is absolutely kicking themselves for not hiring him as head coach after that. Success is interim. They got a chance at LSU after, after that second six and to stand as an interim and LSU is reap the benefits. He's been 34 and And since he's took over in the last three years and he's a coach that's really looked at himself in the mirror as he's as he's been going along and made changes to his approach and made changes to his staff in order to attain the success that he wanted and say what you will.

1:00:06 But I mean, he's a likable guy. I don't think there's anybody that is more affable as a head coach in terms of being both, you know, someone you feel like you have a beard Here with and be affable. But also a guy that really knows his shit. Yep, there's really not a another model for that other than that order on at this point, got you? Yep. All right, man. Well, we have kind of reached the summit here. So our top two and I will let you leave number two, sir. Again, this is probably no surprise to folks here, but at to I've got Dabo Swinney same, so 130 and 31 record. He's got obviously two national titles at this point. Six ACC titles and three-time recipient of the Bear, Bryant award the took Clemson from a middling team to a perennial Challenger for the ACC and then perennial Challenger for the national title.

1:01:06 Earlier in his career, could get over the hump but he's shown that he can be adaptable. Both in how we approach is offense and defense and he's great on the recruiting Trail. They consistently end up pulling in the top five classes and that's that's really been a sticking point. But the big thing is, is his ability to Rally the support for the team around his vision. And that's what's really I think separated what he's done in the ACC versus we're kind of everybody else is a giant step behind them from the financial alignment. And from the physical perspective that that fan base carries, both from their traveling and just the pride, they showing their team, they become a national brand become because of that, they absolutely are men and I'm going to say a couple things.

1:02:01 First of all, a lot can be said about Dabo, but you Not deny. You kind of mentioned, it kind of took affable program that had some history. Could always get some Talent, always kind of competitive, and he just found some in the dirt there down Clemson, you mentioned about the financial piece and everybody's probably heard the story before Dabo got into coaching, he was essentially in corporate in commercial real estate. So when you hear talk about that money and how we It. If he's doing commercial real estate, I think he probably saw how corporations was probably handling their assets. And he probably went down to Clemson kind of like me and you talked about me and the corporate world and he said you see that Stadium over there.

1:02:48 We hit that rock. We come down that Hill, there's 80,000 people that's how we bleep in make money. You're going to give me all the money because if you do, we're going to create something. And he did create something. And in my opinion, he's created a second death star in college. Football because of where they're located, you know, down in the South but can kind of recruit nationally. They got a very good school, their small town. He's putting guys in the pros, man. Yeah, and you got, you got a combination of the academics and the the NFL statue that they have. No, that's that's a big one. Two punch.

1:03:29 And one other piece, you talk about him, getting good recruits, but only a couple Times has he gotten the top class? Because I think the one thing he does that James Franklin needs to think about he still goes out and get some of those two and three star dogs. Guys he sees that are just fighting for every inch. He puts them on the team and almost kind of treat them the same as he does everybody else where it's I have the to store. I have the walk on guy while he's the same as you five star. So consensus consensus. Number two. There we go. Yeah. Are you leave with the one eye? Right? I'll leave man. I mean there's nobody else we've mentioned. So it's kind of tough.

1:04:14 It's Nick Saban and there's not even a question. You can love them, you can hate it, but you better respect. And because this man coach football, Nick is coach college football, 24 years, Brian, between Toledo Michigan, State LSU, and Alabama. He has won at every stop. He has six national titles, but the one thing I give him, I'm credit for more than anything, especially over the last 10 years. He has learned how to adapt, you know, he knows how to coach, he knows how to recruit. He's got to fire, but you know that man is cerebral. In my opinion, is the top five all-time head coach.

1:04:54 But the one other piece that I think that sometimes might get overlooked with Nick is, he kind of had a reinvent himself after what happened Miami any he reinvented himself freely to go back to more of the coaching because although every Bama player that gets drafted, does it become a superstar? You don't find many on that flame out there. Usually consistently good players and I think that kind of tells me that when he went back to the college game, it was I'm going to teach these guys how to play football. So when they walk in the NFL locker room, even if they aren't the star, they're going to be on the squad, five or six.

1:05:37 Ears. I've got him at one as well. We're consensus on onto and one here. Record wise to 4365 and one, that's ridiculous. 24 years of education, that's ridiculous. 8 SEC. Championships in 20 years to Walter Camp trophies for time SEC coach of the year, I mean, at this point he became like LeBron and m.j. were where they just got tired of giving them the trophy every year. So they'll Like Wilson, got to give it to somebody else for now because you know, they wanted three years in a row or two years in a row stuff like that. So I'm honestly surprised how long he stayed at Bama after it?

1:06:19 It goes back to the reinvention point that you were talking about is that he wasn't really at any stop for longer than 4 years. Before this current state of Alabama. And I think like I said, it goes along with what you're saying about the Reinventing. He's definitely changed his approach to the game. I think he really wants to build a program where it's about guys, that end up having success. After they leave, Alabama, I think winning has been a byproduct of that, but he's trying to get the best guys in house and Coach them up so they can have success with them. Next Level now, ultimately, that's sometimes stung him because you know you've got a talented roster of guys that want to play and they can all play at the same time but sometimes that happens.

1:07:09 But the thing that has always impressed me and Curtis we talked about it a bunch of times especially before the playoff was put into place when he's got more than 10 days to prepare for you. Oh, Lord, he is damn near on V, is he is unbeatable. It's not even a joke, man. I mean, it's crazy because you see he has all your little tricks and everything figured out when that happens. I mean, it's wild in, you know, being Virginia Tech fans since he's been at bamboo. We've seen him opening weekend twice. And man, you know, 09, we had them but he got us in in 12 when we were not as talented.

1:07:52 You could tell, you know, he was prepped for what we were going to. To do its kind of unfathomable that again. It's my put about he's fire. You see him scream at the sideline, he gets mad, but he's cerebral. And when he had the chance to look at what he can do to you over the course of a few weeks, he's going to figure it out. So on the other side, you better bring your A Plus because he's going to bring his and his boys are going to execute and you're probably not going to win. Can we also talk about with any other head, coach of had the balls to put to end in that national championship game? No, no, no. But he's been so long episode.

1:08:45 He expected it to be over an hour, man, but, no, we put in some time there. And you talk about where we have our Coach, Frank that we look at the top ten, we're talking about the attributes, we see there. It's a lot of fun to do something like this. So guys what we're going to ask you is have fun tomorrow when we have funded and we drop this who are your top 10 current and into a a football coaches you know will post hours out there. I'm sure that I'm sure I'll get flak for 10 and a heartbeat from a few people but you know, it is what it is. So who's the top? Ten NCAA football. Coaches going into 2020 tweet at us. That Brian.

1:09:29 I think this is going to wrap up this episode of The Boundary Corner podcast. Yes, sir, Curtis Wilson, I'm Brian Ziegler. Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, subscribe to the podcast on your favorite Source, including Spotify and apple podcast. We always let our buddy Jason long place. In play us out, catch him on Spotify, and apple music. Thanks for listening and as always, let's go. Okay.