PHYS 500: NCAA Draft and Other Multiverse Realities

0:49 Welcome back to The Foundry. Corner podcast Curtis Wilson here. My partner is always run Siegel. What's up fellas? How you doing, buddy? Oh man, I am doing good dude. Taking some time off at the end of this week so did not work today sipping on a little water. No, alcohol for me tonight. I don't know why. For some reason I don't work, I get it. Miserable headache and I can't have a little cocktail with my with our podcast today have actually usually we're rolling rolling drinks pretty good. He's so yeah this week I've been back in back in class started in summer session so I had to see and then I had tonight, I just wrapped up about 20 minutes ago so I'm finishing the night with what I call the Rich Man, Poor Man. So I've got the 12 ounce bomber of Richmond, logger, shout out. Hardy would Good.

1:47 And then I've got the 16 oz, tallboy of hams. So going to roll with the bomber first and then I'll finish it off with the hams awesome. Dude. That sounds like some college stuff. Right there, right. Go get a nice six pack and then finish it off with like an a tear a beast to get. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's like I've got just enough money to spoil myself a little bit here. What am I going to do? Oh well, this nice little speck bottle of Guinness is on sale. And I can couple that with some 12-pack and Matty. Let's let that rod for tonight. Let's go, dude. Hey man, you've been doing stuff around your house. I was going to try to do some stuff this week here, but the rain has essentially killed all plans because I will try to seal the deck and it's just raining and raining little too saturated for that. When I took these days off a couple weeks ago, like my thought was I was this would be good. I could get the deck sealant, you know. Wife at home, we can work around her schedule. I can get it done but nope, that ain't happening this weekend. So I don't know when that's going to happen since last time we talked I've been doing actually a few places like a living human being Home Depot Trader. Joe's BJ's kind of feeling a little more normal, maybe that's a way to say it, you know, that's all you. Get some Hurley's you did.

3:08 You guys like had friends or others? You guys go out somewhere the other night. Yeah, so we grabbed some grabs a Wings again. A couple other apps and things of that nature. So we grab that headed over to a park. Kicked it for a little bit. It was it was the first official day that Virginia was kind of opening back up. So we were in in Henrico and kind of threw down some wings on some buffalo cheese tots and they were pretty were pretty solid. And then tonight I had some fajitas from the patron and we got some Some Sarah, got some nachos and why it got is got his quesadilla.

3:52 So it's been a been a good run here for us on. I'm scooping up some solid food even though we're still doing the curbside dance so far. How about you? We had neighbors came up on Saturday. We got her lease, they made some Daiquiris, had some beers in the cul-de-sac kids rode around on their, you know, on their Trikes and other little toys and Jack rode, his bike around. Um it is funny, you mentioned the quesadilla is like that. It's that that's the official kid food if they go to a, if you go to a Mexican establishment, right? Oh absolutely. Yeah, it's definitely the go-to like why it's weird. He gonna, he doesn't even mess around with like chicken or anything.

4:33 His he just went straight cheese quesadilla and let it ride. Yeah. Same thing with both of the boys, although wife when we make them at home like we did here tonight she slips chicken steak beef, whatever we We have and occasionally, get the, what's in this, everything. Eat it. It's good for you. It's good for you. Get some volunteer. All right. Well you guys today on the episode, we're going to dive into something that has been long going between me and Brian and NCA, a-- draft. But before we tackle that and literally, I mean tackle that this was similar to the rushmore's thing.

5:16 We were It was an undertaking done, it was an undertaking, but we got some hokey headlines here. First, the good news, Jalen Jones, the 61 185 wideout out of Thomas Jefferson here in the RV. A committed last Friday. You know, it's a little bit more special when those folks from the 804 commit to Virginia Tech, it just hits a little bit different. I was, I was big-time excited when when I saw that coming out Oh yeah because I think I think he's gonna do some special things for us. I think he's got kind of under the radar Talent right now. Reminds me a lot of Cam so I think we're going to see some good things from him in the future.

6:02 I don't think he's necessarily a day one contributor but I think long term he's gonna pay some dividends for oh absolutely and that Thomas Jefferson program and give head coach, PJ Adams all the credit in the world? Probably, when we first moved here, you the same about the same time frame. They were bad and Cal. Yeah. Now they are respectable program, something he mentioned, I can't remember. It was with Mark, Davis, Orlan, gas, and Dante, but they interviewed him and he talked about sticking it out and Thomas Jefferson because Adams was not there. When he showed up, they were not a good program kind of kind of tells you that It's kind of made out of something different when you hear that.

6:50 So, that makes me extra excited. And then you see, here's a cam comparisons. You see the the body types? You see some of the caches? I mean, did he led basically the central region? You know, the greater part of the r-va in receptions and yards so, you know, I really think that's no small feat man mean, you're planning it solid teams here in this region. So I think I'm kind of with you. If he's a day one contributor. But I think a couple of years and I think he definitely could become definitely a definitely a player with what we're running right now. I agree with that. Like you, like you said, with the sticking it out, it would TJ, I mean, so many of the city kids and have a lot of talent end up, you know, fudging their zip code. So the end of playing for Hermitage or Holland Springs or for Rhino instead of one of the city's schools, so seeing a kid like him, If your stick it out, do the right thing and you go out there and shine, then we that that says a lot about his character and says a lot about his willingness to not take the easy way there as we were absolutely. Well, Ron, let's just talk about the elephant in the room ten days ago when me and you talked to meet your status head decommitted, just the way it seemed he needed to check out some other options.

8:14 You know, said he would plan on making a fish. Visits and then lo and behold last weekend minutes after the Jalen Jones announcement mind you. There was an announcement that he was committing on Sunday at 11:00 and when everything came down, Curtis where do you end up Auburn? Let's talk about what happened the day before that, though there was a Instagram post with a top-three released, guess who was not in that top three. We all burn guess who was not in the previous top six, he released right after he decommitted Auburn.

8:58 So we got a little bait-and-switch situation going on here. We're pretty much everyone knew where he was going. It seemed like between the crystal balls on 24/7 and all of the board speculation. Yeah. And then he tried to pull what seemed like A little bit of an okeydoke late to try to guess maybe I've just skate the situation so it seemed like it came out of the blue, it didn't know because we owe you said it last as time something changed in the last month. Leading up to this and then all of a sudden get radio silence and you get a deep commitment and now you get that surprise commitment to a school. He didn't even list in any of these top schools that he was focusing on.

9:46 So that says to me that something was going on and for whatever reason they didn't want eyes on the Auburn program until everything came down, whether it was to bring an element of surprise. Rise or whether it was to hurt us or hurt another, another team, it's hard to tell what the actual motivation for it was here. That part was ridiculous. But redeemable now what wasn't redeemable with some of the comments that were made after the commitment and I'll let Curtis take those and expand upon them here because I know he was in his in his pocket, there about them. It got me.

10:33 Know when he said the stuff about, I want to play SEC football. I want to be part of one of the bigger program. Cool, we as Virginia Tech fans. Me you the majority of people, we know say, yep. Auburn, last 10 years has been a much better football program. We will Advocate otherwise, but we understand where you're coming. From understand where you're coming from. That's cool. But then it was, it was, it was, it was really two things. And one was the well Tech wanted me to come in right away and play what? Wait a second, dude. We have three highly rated guys already here.

11:14 Well, hold on. So that doesn't seem to Bear out, you know, Common Sense like most of us have and then you know, and then he thought that I'd rather sit behind phone eggs and it's just like wait a second there's bonuses. And essentially in the same room At the guys that we have. So let's let's, let's not go that direction but the one that probably set people off the most was the academic thing and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do three minutes worth of research on Google. Also in know, in general, that Virginia Tech is a superior academic institution to Auburn Auburn 10 core. Text somewhere like Stark.

12:01 So, you know, that that really set people off and some people are trying to say, oh, they just miss quoted of you is talking about the academics and rewarding. It's like I text him spiegelman's article a couple times and he has not retracted it. He is not updated it. So either he completely he wrote it in completely misleading terms or Demetrius set. Some things that really is. Not true and he has not done his research on Auburn as an institution either, he can be completely. Use the wrong words to convey his meaning, or he doesn't understand what he's talking about. And, you know, even if there may be a program or two specific to Auburn that might, you know, be relative or better than Tech. What if you're talking about the academic institution as a whole and specifically the target programs that he had mentioned in the past, there's no competition. Yeah.

13:00 So that raises some eyebrows. It seem like an unnecessary troll on the way out of the good fortunes of the Hokey fandom there. So it was, it was complete. It was unnecessary. In my opinion, it didn't need to be said nothing, most everyone understood. I'll bring it. Has a better football program, in terms of what it can do right for him. Yep, I think we understand that that It's not saying he couldn't have had a good or better career at Virginia Tech that he couldn't offered. But in terms of walking, in day one, they offer things that we can offer right now on a scent. And I don't think anybody would have had an issue.

13:41 If that's all he said and it has been like good luck to you. Have a good career? Yeah. So yeah. But let's not get too deep into that because you're drinking and that's good. We could go really deep into that. I've already finished the rich man died. Ready on the poor man. You're already killing the poor man. Just hammering it, dude. Hammering it. Hey, let's do it. Let's have a little fun, man. Some things came up this week, Chad, and, you know, things on Twitter and what you? Let's go with the top three chain sub spots for you Brian. Let's go. 3, 2, 1. Start with your three, and I'll hit with mine. All right. Three Penn Station, Penn Station is the winner in this category, because they put pizza sauce on the cheesesteak.

14:29 Take, and they've got fries. And if you like a cold refreshing beverage in the summer time, they've got a pretty banging homemade lemonade will buy you three for me is Potbelly, okay? Very big fan of pot-bellied since they opened pretty local here, last few years, both good hot and cold Subs. Have an awesome chip brand, but the one thing that sets it off for me is do that little pickled. Pepper thing, they have it's just like so money's, like grab two of those to go myself. I appreciate it. I know about you and the peppers, man. I remember some troops used to make it the office back in the day, you would always loaded up on the pepper. So I I know that you are a pepper kind of sewer Peppers, you know?

15:19 Dude I'll be straight up as a family we buy bell peppers, either three or six every week so I love Peppers. Hi, what's your 20? To, I'm going to go. It's a toss-up. I'm gonna go Firehouse. I'm gonna go fire house. I'm going to go probably hook and ladder is going to be the go-to well buddy. You and number two. Dude, I'm firehouses well. And I think the reason is it's a bigger sub than pot-bellied but they're hot and cold match. They have some they have good. Like, I believe that Reuben I've had several times excellent Reuben for a chain restaurant and you know, that they have the cold. To.

16:06 So I'm with Father. What's the other one inch and the engineer I think is the one that has the the brisket and the yes pastrami. I think you're right about that. Yeah but just just just a really good sub just you know every like the ingredients and everything. It's you know there might too. Now I have a feeling I have a feeling too and wanting to be the exact same for mean. You just want to thank you hear Voice number one. In Jersey Mike's. And it's not a question. I've got two. No twos. I've got the, I got the number nine. If I want something cold, and I've got the Big Kahuna, if I'm going for for something. Hot agreed on the Big Kahuna, but I love the cancro, the canker of special that's my go-to with the cold, but I think Jersey is Mike's the reason they're one is, if you just want like a good cold cuts up man, they pile it. And they are very simplistic with their ingredients and it's good.

17:09 The bread tastes great. They put enough meat and cheese on there, where you feel like you're taking a sandwich and then the same with the Big Kahuna with those jalapenos, baby. Okay. Now let's just put it out here to those listening. Subway is not acceptable in a top three. Yeah, I've got no problem with you. Putting Subway somewhere. But it's not at the top three, it really shouldn't be a top five if you know depending on depending on your locality in your exposure I can see where Subway might make a top five but I mean if you've been anywhere that has at least four sub shops you should not have Subway in your top three. Boom, we're going to end up doing an episode of one day. Cause I'd be good with that.

18:06 I'd be good with that. All right buddy, I got a song. I want to play for you for where we're moving next. Alrighty, I'm listening. All right, guys, we're entering a world where the NCAA has a draft picture. If you will get it, gotta do my best Rod here, picture event roster the baby. So this has been like kind of floated in several podcast in the of yesteryear. But we figured, you know, since we're in a Quarantine right now, we got time on our hands. We could discuss it.

18:53 We decided we were going to give the people what they want and what the people want? I think is a more Equitable college football, situation. Something with more parity at least more parity than we have. And Curtis has been, I don't know. Curtis, I'll let you throw it out there. When did you develop this? All right, it started roughly seven or eight years ago when Me and you were working together and you we take lunches and breaks. And I feel like about every once a month this would come up for like two days and we go back and forth. And at that point in time you knew my stance I was completely against all the pain of any players didn't want it to happen.

19:38 Didn't think it was right now. Even at that point in time, even seven, eight years ago, you had a different stance, though. Yes. I was willing to listen to propose. Rules for players profiting from their name or likeness or abilities mainly because regardless of how we both felt about the situation, literally every other student athlete has an opportunity, except for ones that play some of these major sports. So whether their own scholarship, they're not, they can make money off their likeness name or ability, but it's ew, athletes didn't have that privilege. So that's where my, that's where my take was.

20:19 It seemed like Curtis if he was going to take a dive off here. He wanted something a little bit more revolutionary, there's no reason to play it safe in that case on because my thought was when you always talked about that was well Whoever has the biggest boosters or just going to essentially higher the top prospects. If you got a booster who's worth 60 million dollars, um, come here son, come on over here. 60,000, talk about my car Dealership whatever. But as you slowly through this conversation, you you sort of kind of grinded at me over those few years because you hit some really good valid points. But then like, I can remember like one of the days. I first brought up the idea and it hit me and I said it to you, but like revolutionary idea.

21:13 And the idea was this, when I said it, I'm sure Brian's face. Your face is I gave me one of those who still looks but I said, hey Brian, we pay the players but if we pay the players they get drafted, he said it and my first immediate reaction was nah, that's not going to happen. That's fine. That wouldn't be feasible. It removes the idea of scholar-athlete almost completely since a prospect wouldn't be able to choose where they would go if they're being drafted. But as Curtis started explaining what he was talking about. There's actually a little bit of a solution to that conundrum and I'll let Curtis dive in a little bit more here and tell you what that solution is. Yeah.

22:01 And we're going to get to that, won't you? Hold it because it's like, it's got to be layered, right. Because if they start going all over the place, people will be like what the bleep did you guys talk tonight. But the one thing I can't Brian, during this time that always done, he really he challenged me on certain Except some of my original ideas. He play Devil's Advocate even though at times there was no reason to play Devil's Advocate with so many of the ideas and points I've come up with. So we walking around break just chitchat. Like what about this? And you'd be like, poke poke poke be like damn you. But I, but I really appreciate it. Because it made me think more and more about this. And in reality, it really isn't just my piece is both of our pieces because without Brian being that devils, Advocate without essentially playing that person who, you know, I'd come the idea into here it is.

22:55 What do you think? You poke the holes? I go back to the drawing board is really both of our dissertation on this type subject. Yeah, I was good at poking, the whole wall. So and then cried said, encourage back in the lab and he'd come back at me we you know, one solution. Would fill one hole and sometimes open another. Sometimes he'd seal it up, good on the least on one side of the ship. I wouldn't say that what we were about to present here is better than the current system. But I would argue it certainly is no worse and is more Equitable. And if that's what we're shooting for then this you know might have some legs in a Twilight Zone. It is also again, I think pot probably a complete pipe dream that we have fun with and we thought we would let you in on some of this, this brain.

23:48 Lab Behavior. Curtis is showing trying to fix college sports. First of all, pipe dream. Hell, this is going to be the way it goes one day and we might be in our 60s when it happens and we will be commissioned in it. Me and you were going to work out. Getting some, we're going to get the what's the rights man? And that when you have the ideas God you know intellectual property rights, there you go, it electrical property rights. Thanks it wasn't coming there. The intellectuals kind of gone today. But the first thing we had to do was I had to start somewhere and say, well who's a part of this draft and, you know, I'm just going to be straight up, I'm sorry.

24:29 Group of five schools, Old Dominion Georgia, Southern and the rest of y'all and all you long-term non-major, Independence. Sorry, Liberty. You're not involved. So it's really you're looking at all the power, five schools along with Notre Dame and BYU, I'm Sardar me, guess you're an independent long-standing, but we cannot start partnering you with having this potential when navy Air Force Camp. Plus I get a feeling this service institutions wouldn't want to be a part of this anyway. Their things they don't even release about some of their players and some of their scholarships. So I'm sure there'll be some part of like, nah, we're good. We're on a different level than that. So, so that's it.

25:19 We got 66 teams. All right. So first thing here, for the, for those done. The 66, they will unfortunately be resigned to get the leavings of the power 5 program. Should they choose? Not to accept the power 5 draft? Designations They also may not be able to support themselves since, I'm not certain that the financials will be the same. Once all these changes are in place, the first holds I'd like to poke in here is like let's talk about television money. And the teams that draft not wanting to play teams that don't the same way that power 5 and G five schools currently play. Well, I think first brine you talk about them playing, I think that's still going to happen, you know? There is still going to be money out there for p52 fake G5 to say hey come down first week in September, here's million dollars.

26:18 They're not going to turn those down but also the G5 is actually going to have in a little while here. You're going to hear some benefits that they have that the P5 don't have concerning players so hold tight for that man. You know. So the P51 privy to certain things that the G5 are now as far as supporting Cells. I even think with the things I'm going to lay out and we're going to discuss here, there's still a market for gm5 amongst fans amongst recruits. I mean their games are still being watched. I mean, Brian you take last year UCF temple on Thursday night competing with the NFL still pulled like 1.8 million people on ESPN to watch it.

27:01 That's not small number and then you think about like, mac ssion and the, the fun belt on Tuesday and Wednesdays. They're pulling anywhere from 650, 700, 800 thousand people watching. So the markets are still, there we are football-loving society and I don't foresee them losing it all now. I think what probably will have to happen if this were ever to be implemented. I think they'd have to take a hard look About who they pay versus who just gets a scholarship. But I think this is just going to be just it's still the devil but it's just a different type of devil that again that we're looking at making college football as a whole more equitable. Okay, okay, so you're thinking that with the measures that are in place and with some of the cost saving features coupled with some of the extra media Revenue coming in that they're going to be just fine.

28:03 Absolutely. I think they're going to be just fine. Plus, you know, I can't wear a football of them society and the one thing I'm going to bring up here later is going to be about the money for that G5 / P 5, which I think you're going to like a lot but but now hey I got 66 team established. We got it right. Okay, we got 6666 but like any draft you can't just throw out big number Birds, whatever, whatever. So I started doing some research and I kind of effort it in effort and looked and said, all right, eight rounds feels right? It's about 528 prospects. That's where I feel.

28:45 That's going to be the size of this draft. There's a to see Your picks for these 66 teams. Okay, so you got eight round, 66 teams. Obviously theoretically eight pigs per team so I like the number in terms of not being, oh, nurse Lee, long of a draft and problematic from a logistical standpoint. Got a couple questions for you though. All right, normally recruiting cycle has 18 to 26, 25 26, scholarships available, depending on De partie players, transfer as things of that nature. Where are the other players coming from to fill out the rest of the roster and is they're going to still be traditional recruiting for those sub 8786 re caliber players because if we're talking about 528 prospects, we're talking about pretty much all the five and four-star guys and a good number of high three stars. Absolutely.

29:41 Yep. It's theoretically eight picks and then you know, some things can happen that will be touched on later. Or about the theoretical eight picks but for the players who aren't drafted and we hit them first. They're just going to be going through their normal recruiting process for them. It's their decision where they want to play and you are kind of right about that ranking caliber. Twilight looked at eight rounds because that's roughly your five-star. Your lead of a leak to your very high three borderline for. But also So it's a very interesting number of how coaches have to sell kids because it's not a tiny number. Like, oh, you've got to sell three kids that get drafted. That's, that's not that overly difficult, right? Yeah, but it's not like, oh, we're gonna do 26 rounds. First of all, we'd be here for three weeks, and that wouldn't be fun for anyone.

30:34 So they still have to, they still have to kind of sell a kid. And for the kid, I mean, you see so many guys get so excited about getting drafted, even if it's in the Seven, six and seventh rounds. It's kind of a symbol. I'm one of the best. I was chosen by a power five team or one of the major Independence to play football for them. The kind of, like a badge of honor to say, you got drafted in this. Okay. So it seems like if you're a power, five School scouting and selling their pick is still going to be very important because if it turns out, you know, whether the recruiting turn sour or more taper, Feels that they are who you thought you were. You don't exactly have the ability to Pivot to like a high 3 or a low for Star playing be like you would under current recruiting is all those guys are already going to be on other teams.

31:26 So you'll have to try to sell an undrafted player that played for you is better than going to a G5 school at that point or you'll have to find someone on the transfer portal. And since were there Curtis, what's the transfer portal going to look like in the system. I helped us before I had to try. A, I'm going to agree with you 100% on this, The Scouting, how you sell your flow G finding culture, if it's there, still so important in doing this. But to your point it kind of starts, this is where I'm talking. We're talking about the Equitable, it starts, leveling the playing field. That if a team doesn't have three tier 1 options at a physician's, your Scouts better be right about those lower guys because that's where so many of the elite You know, they're old middle linebacker went down.

32:17 What does that matter? They had the third best middle linebacker in their recruiting class the year after he came, it doesn't hurt them at all compared to a lot of players and it's to me why we look at this and you see that we've had a playoff for six years, only 11 teams that went behind on the 11 teams have went to that. So there's really no parity in it at all for me. I'm all with the new transfer rules for those players. Now, there are going to be we'll discuss it when we get to the financial point. There are some Financial consequences when kids do choose to make that decision, it's going to be highlighted as we cover the salary portion of the conversation.

33:02 Okay, so we've got the inherent benefits and the fact that you've still got to recruit under this system. All right. Let's take a look at the draft itself. First, what type of draft are we? Having second are their trades going to be allowed in this draft and third, if they are, if they are going to be allowed, would it be a pic package or would players be involved and forth? What are the ramifications of drafting a player that, you know, won't play for your school? Both for that player and for the school and those are really all good legitimate questions of how this goes. First of all, this is a complete lie.

33:43 Lottery style selection and for the first year you do it you would drop all sixty six teams in. Pick them up one through 266. How that turns out is after that you're looking at 33 and 33. So for example if you are in the first half of the first 66, the next flick you're going to be in the back half and you're going to flick it, split it up like that. I hope that does. That make sense? You'll be rotating every year you're going to be at the front half. Of the 33 of the back half of the 33 and where you are is going to be essentially, you know, completely random. So you cannot tank to get extra balls.

34:24 You get one ball only but it's also going to be a snake draft. So, thank for most of us, you play Fantasy Football. Snake draft is how we do it again. This is where the selections kind of level out, you pick the highest, you know, five star because you had the second pick. Well, now you're having to wait, what is that close to? What almost 130, pixel, 800-plus pics? Yeah, to make your second picks. So all those teams who are at the back half one year, you know, they have that potential to get like we're going to get maybe a top 60 and then a top, 80 Guy versus, if you're picking up front we're getting one of the elites but now again how we Scout, this guy's going to be kind of important. So you know, Those things are pretty big on that. Now, there are they will be no trades allowed, okay? Yes, none.

35:20 You can't do it. It's theirs. You can't be saying we're going to do this pick in this picture. This big. Nope, you're getting eight players whether you like it or not, not unless if you draft a player and they do not signed to play for you, they're going to have Financial consequences. But I'll get to that later, but there are two things that can happen if they signed with one of the other 65 schools. First of all, that's cool. Will relinquish their pick in the next year's draft for the same round. So let's say your School of Choice chooses a quarterback at 18, he doesn't want to play for you. I'm going to this school. Well, if that's cool, chooses to sign in, guess what?

36:03 You get there. One pick the next year, some compensation. So again, Then how you recruit, that's who really wants that guy. He thinks he's worth it. Well, you better hope that the next year, he is worth it because you're not going to have one of those little eat 66 players to go there. Now, here's kind of the downside of it but good for the G5 schools. If the school below, if that kids used to go to a G5 school, you're out of luck. So, you know, you still have to recruit two players, and you have to know them, when you draft them, that you draft on, you know, they're going to walk on campus and start playing for you, okay? Okay, so notes, all these teams.

36:47 If this ever goes down, do not put yourself in a John Elway, your Eli Manning type situation because you will get screwed. And you might waste a pick and even if you get a compensatory pick, you're putting yourself one cycle behind on some of these teams because you're essentially throwing away up a high caliber player for one year, exactly. All right. So lottery draft order with a snake format. So now we've got the players are drafted. Let's talk about financials. That's one of the biggest selling points for the system. Yeah, it is. Now, you're exactly right with the eel. Eli and John Elway, comparison, Steve. Why you've got to recruit?

37:29 You've got to get to know these guys. Now, there is some compensation for losing a guy, so it's not a complete waste. But to your point you just made if you just tried to take a guy and he had no interest in signing, he left. Yeah, you got a compensatory but guess what? Well now you've got to figure out one of the other guys either in your draft or one of the undrafted guys that you're recruiting, can you get somebody similar order your point? Well, the next You're going to have an extra pick but okay, great. That's next year that doesn't help you. One thing about college as we know every year, so you don't want to throw away a selection. I mean, you got some scholarships toward the low end that, you know, you take risk on guys, but you don't want to be throwing away, your, your eight, top recruits for a from a cycle. And knowing one of them is just not going to be there and give you any production.

38:24 Absolutely. All right, so Financial Peace. Well, here's the big piece, all the division. One programs P5 Independence, have the option to pay their players. A set amount of twenty thousand dollars per year along with their scholarship. Now, amazing programs, discretion of how many players you take, now the maximum quality players, 85 that's going to be the max number of paid players. So we will essentially Match that. So if you have 85 guys on scholarship, those are the 85 guys, essentially getting paid. So the program chooses to pay all ages. It is only a grand total.

39:08 Brine of 1.7 million a year. I mean, that's what do you think of that? Um, that's that was my first big question. When it came to the financial side of his is this additional budget to pay players. Where is it coming from? I know additional media proceeds were coming to play because the more parody that you see in a league, the more people tune in and watch because there's more people that have steaks and, and steaks that go beyond, just whether or not a team wins or loses and whether or not a team, you know, gets them that pearly that they've been looking for. You know, bookies aside so when we look at so we got a digital media proceeds from that are open up to the university as a result of that from the conference in the n-c-double-a.

39:55 So that's going to be a portion of it. But I think there would likely still be incentive to pay. Only players that were drafted versus the entire 85 scholarships under this proposal. But you know, if you've got the resources, you might be able to pay them all. I think some of it's going to depend on what your, what Your boosters can do. I don't know what what that's going to look like. But in terms of being able to pump money into a program, is that going to help still help those programs in a way? Well you know I mean that's what it's going to be the decision of each University. Everybody's going to have their bottom lines. They look at and you know how they decide to give you a potential future monies and all that. But I mean, we talked about it last week, we would Virginia Tech The football program had profits last year of 23 million dollars, dude, 1.7 million ain't even 10% of that and wear one of those in the, in the, in the 30s. And, you know, there's some programs clearly behind us. So, again, the schools have to determine that, but again, the big piece is to your point.

41:06 You just made Your Iowa State. And I knew I was States now better under Matt Campbell, but for years, they were a doormat. You're getting better players, your more competitive team for more people are coming. More people are watching you on TV so you're probably going to see money. Come back to the program regardless, okay? So more money is coming in. It would be nice for the NCAA to maybe come off of some of their money to help these universities, you know, meet that bottom line, and not have to cut sports or or rely on these extra donors to fund the, the system, the new draft system.

41:46 But I don't foresee the NCAA necessarily changing their allotments to the conference's. What about you? Well, I mean, I think what you're gonna see is the school's potential are going to see a windfall from a deal cover in this draft because we know people watch. I mean, you take a look at national Signing Day When It Happens. ESPN, FS1. Be a sport. They're all on top of it so they're clearly covered it up. So you don't think if you have a draft where they're talking about the best high school players with 66 of the most popular teams, I think there's some help right there man to help those salaries. Yes. The NCAA is going to cover that, cut it up to the conferences in the schools that would cover it.

42:31 Because I know what networks for the NFL draft, I think paid a total of 440. Billion to the NFL to cover the draft last year. So even if the n-c-double-a made you know 1/40 of that that would be enough to cover the additional amount to pay all 8685 scholarships for every NCAA team. That's a part of the draft. Absolutely Manning. Just a billion dollars, you know billion dollars to some programs to help them out. I don't think that now let me call me kind of slip in I think. This, the NCAA would be smart to aim for like a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, like in January, after the national championship game before before NFL, playoff games are kind of in their big for those weekends because you still essentially we're going to eliminate the early 90s early signing period and we're going to go back to the old school. You sign in February, so you're going to have a draft and a few weeks later national Signing Day. So there's that kind of Of the time frame in there where they can carve out a little three-day spot where fans like me and you folks, we talked with our friends of other teams. Well, who's not sitting down to see who your rival or soon, who's getting, I taken?

43:53 It's true, man. I think you know, talking about that Pro Bowl weekend is probably a very good week in the lookout because it's a couple weeks ahead of Nationals the traditional national Signing Day, but it's on a weekend where you're not competing with the All that much, especially if you get into Thursday Friday and Saturday, especially if you're doing something in the daytime on on Saturday. I think you're going to be fine there. So I think Pro Bowl, we could really turn into something. That's about more than just, you know, the guys that were good but our thing in the Super Bowl, playing an exhibition do that, actually, I love that idea man, because if you really have it, you have so many pro bowlers there, who could announce two picks for Alma maters. And I know earlier and we brought him up a couple times. You had some questions about the financial side where we finally got here.

44:47 We're through the draft when it probably should take place. What type of draft it is, but we are now here. It's so, we're talking about per athlete now. So we've kind of address, the big picture Financial. Let's look, let's take a look at the individual, how it affects an individual student Wait. So you got the idea of paying twenty, Kay a year per athlete for up to 85 athletes per team. So since we're still at the draft version and not after a student is enrolled, what happens? Financially should a student athlete choose not to enroll at their. Drafted School child is the biggest piece of financial for those athletes.

45:32 If you choose not to play for the school that drafted them but you choose one of the other 65 schools. That's keep here. Involved with the draft you forfeit three years of salary. You essentially forfeit Ten dollars worth of money. That's a lot of money that you if you told me, Brian, if me and you were told each other. Hey, if you go here, will give you 60 Grand or give you 20 grand a year to go school. You okay, that's cool. But if you go over there, you're going to lose all that, huh? But remember, the one thing I told you about the G5 schools, they had some benefits. Well, if you get drafted, and you don't want to go play there, but you go play it to G5 School.

46:14 Your ecu's hear you out. CS you don't lose that salary. So D5 schools probably going to be hired some groups recruiters to go have to some of those kids. Okay? So so that that we're talking about another situation where, you know, talking to kids are going to be crucial. Absolutely. It's going to be crucial to begin staying with them. Now, you asked about some transfer stuff earlier to only hit that real quick. It's going to be similar to transfer if you transfer with the one-time exception because I do like that a lot to one of the other 65 schools, you do lose a year of your salary. Now, if you go to a G5 School, same way you don't lose anything grad transfers there, they're done with essentially the school they started with they don't lose Is anything when they transfer, they keep that salary.

47:12 So the bigger piece here is, you know, you get drafted somewhere. You don't like you, but you don't want to lose that much money, you know, I'm going to go here and get my 20K in and transfer it while won't go. Well, you know the dice rolled Brian when you start transferring because it's like you're going to be behind people already. You're not gonna know the chemistry of the team you're going to have to learn to play book. Is it worth twenty thousand dollars to go somewhere? Where maybe you think has more class Or maybe you think so better situation? Okay, so it makes it makes you think twice about Cloud chasing or going to these traditional NFL factories just for the sake of doing it versus sticking out and showing what you can do on the field at a non-traditional school or a school that doesn't quite have that that same level of clout, so piggybacking on that.

48:05 So we're talking about G5, still, has that option there, but the biggest critique I have is, you know, we talked about the The draft funding in the 60k for the draft eligible schools. Who's funding the 60k, should a player choose to go to G5. How many scholar Ash athletes, are they expected to be paid? If they end up playing for G5, I'll be, I really like the idea of the player losing out. Should they choose to go to another school? Because it requires the player and the coach to be upfront during the pre-draft process. If you blow smoke up a coach's ass about being willing to play there, R or they draft you and then you're you're in a spot.

48:47 If you change your mind or if you were bullshitting them in Jumping Ship, now you actually got some real world consequences for those decisions. At the same time, a coach will need to be upfront about a player and how they will be deployed or how soon they will play. Because that's still going to be a selling point for the situation, but I'm still concerned. If they go through all that and they still decide, they want to go G5, how are they getting funded? All right. Yeah, I'm gonna hit the G5 first and we'll come back to the other piece about, you know, the recruiting part of it. The G5 is going to have to find their own salaries, just like the other 66.

49:30 Now, the number of trade prospects. Again, we set it with the other guys. It's going to be at the discretion of the school. You don't want it. E5, you don't have to have any 5. This is completely up to you. It's an option out there to offer the player this so they have to make those decisions. They have to look at their football, but some of them, you know, are looking at. Some of them are making money where this would be a problem. Some of them are probably the football program pays for itself. What do we do? There's four, five years, ten kids, we were Ali. Like we can get if we pay them but how do we talk to the other seven times? Now to your other point you're absolutely right about blowing smoke up people's asses and how you recruit. First of all, I don't think any player that gets drafted in this by school is going to be one of those are they're just they just want to get this clout guy.

50:27 Why are you going to do that? If they spent really could leave, if we're drafting you, we feel that you are one of the eight players that can come in and make an immediate impact, right? No doubt, no doubt, that's my thought. A starting role by your by your second year. I think that's going to be problematic if you're taking guys like that. Absolutely. And it's just one of those things because it's really where it starts, leveling the playing field. Because now there's ABC options. Now, you have to be real because you aren't getting those option. They don't have Country, Coach has to be, you have to coach up. Those who aren't as talented, you know, if you don't have 11 5 stars, You're getting in this recruiting class and you got to well how good of a coach are you?

51:19 You know? That's that's a thing to think about that. So many times like are you really a good coach or do you just have guys who were made for the NFL and you're just here riding them? So yeah. All right man. Well you know the theme of this entire conversation is mostly been me arguing money, whether it's how to fund the draft. To fund the 20K, whether from a power 5 or a G5 situate situation. I haven't really focused a lot on Logistics or bylaws. So, let's talk Logistics and bylaws, you know what role is the NCAA going to play in governing this system? What rules exist for player image likeness and are there going to be any changes to the 3-year rule? Rule for going pro.

52:14 I know that's more of an NFL thing than an NCAA thing, but I think some of this is going to be reciprocal and how is pro defined under these new rules since players are being compensated directly for their play. All right, so first of all, the NCAA would have three to five players of every team randomly off of the pay players, randomly audited yearly and by that entire asthma and their financials, their assets and Lead thing there. Or a value. So you want to set this up so if a booster starting to pay the players and they get caught, Adam is Mobsters get caught, they get called actually doing a crimes now. Well, Phoenix, it's usually findings is this crew, you know them over so you know what, you know, ability to properly and launder their money.

53:03 There you go. So, in this case, do I foresee happening. Absolutely. But for me, I think you don't punish the kids that hard. I think you lay off the kid. Kids, again, there's somewhere between the age of 17. 22, they're young, you know kind of unaware of this. It to me. You crush the school that lets it happen and you crush the boosters. When I say Crush to boosters, they don't allow to associate with the school. They can't be anywhere near that campus. They essentially get their pride and joy trip that. They're one of these guys that can walk and talk to all the players and get to know them, get to pictures in the autographs and take it away from you want to see some booster, stop doing shit. That's how you stop him, right? There then remove the clouds. Remove the clout.

53:45 Ding. Ding now I would like to see going forward with the ncaa's. Guidelines are going to be for the name image and likeness rule that's coming down just to see kind of. They're going to have a cap on that, I'm assuming they will. So again it would probably slowly fall into that line with the audible players, you take three of the five. You look at what they got on their salary, what they got with the name image and likeness and dive into it that way. And you said it before the three-year Rule is, it's an NFL rule. That's not an NCAA rule, they aren't professionals. The reason these kids are being compensated is because they are representing their school publicly.

54:31 Because as you know, and the one thing that stuck with me so long ago, that when we started this conversation, most students can get a job working on campus these guys cans. But what they're doing, how they're working to put into the putting their bodies on the line, candy canes. War, you know, 60 70 hundred thousand people to watch and pay to see him play, and then Millions more on TV that back. That's their job. That's their just work study ever. It's like me becoming an RA or working for housing or you like being a front desk agent. There is no difference except they make a lot more. They bring in a lot more money than we do.

55:13 And a lot of work studies, don't ask you to put your body on line like that, man. It's true. History of not played V3, so I put my body on the line for free, but yeah, I get where you're coming from with that. That definitely playing at a high level like that definitely, you know, comes with some Hazard pay as it were, all right. So you telling me, I get paid 20K a year though and with my only uncovered mandatory expense being gas money. Yeah, it's still take that. So now that we've more or less laid out the key points, anything else the audience needs to know about this plan. No real. Other key point because it's kind of laid out here. But a question for you. Brian, you have seen and you've heard this plans for years. I mean Year we're, it's borderline a decade-old. Now, let me ask this does this plan benefit the players? Does it benefit?

56:09 The players is that you give me a yes or no? Yeah, players definitely have some benefit here. No doubt. Because again, they're getting financially compensated for their play directly, not them having to hustle. I mean, even even under the more ideal situation that we're looking at coming into play here with image and likeness. They still have to the hustle themselves to get those things put in place. This is okay. Well, you're playing for us. You get paid, there you go. So some other things. That's a big benefit big benefit for the players. And does this benefit the top 10% of college football or the other 90, in terms of the ones that are part of the draft and even indirectly, I could say, some of the, the g5s definitely benefits the other ninety and I think it puts a greater influence on building relationships and coaching on the field prop on the field product, versus selling miscellaneous off the field, I think in many ways will learn that. A good coach will get a kid drafted, no matter what university they represent, and I'd like to see that. I mean, the schools that we call NFL factories are called such because so many of the most talented players are going there and every year they've got a four or five star guy playing the key positions on that team.

57:31 Yeah, and I'm going to say this about the NFL factories, the one big Advantage, they have over the next tier schools there and you set it there. So deep Deep top guy goes down. Another top guy comes right into fall into place and it's tough to tell it in Collegiate level. If it's the coaching or if I got was just born play football and I tell you if the system has ever adopted, you imagine a team like Ohio State who was just always loaded, so many talented players. You imagine them that five starting left tackle goes down and then this the to star from down the road. He's probably isn't ready to play, that's a fact of life for the other 90%. I mean, we see it every year with our team being, the Hokies, we see it every year happen, and it's the other schools as well. That aren't in that essentially, upper echelon and I'm going to tell you another thing in, this could be the trigger if it's everywhere to happen.

58:33 I bet you Infidel front. Offices, would love this idea because then they would be able to see what kids. Truly can play and who just might be along for the ride with all the other talented guys around them. That's true. Let me pose this question to you run based on your knowledge of college football. You watched alot, you're like me, you'll stay up till 1:00 in the morning watching the West Coast games. You'll watch some random games them on Thursday night, Wednesday night. But who do you think really would Thrive under the system? What are some teams out there that you feel just watching them College? All your life, that always seemed like, you know, who do you think thrives here? So the teams are going to thrive the most or teams that are coached, well on the field and the the teams had developed Talent.

59:20 Well, and so teams that have consistently finished ahead of their recruiting average in the final standings every year. So teams that might be recruiting outside the top 25. Even some cases, outside the top 40, but still finishing in the top 25 more or less. At least, once every three to five years. You know, let's talk about teams like Wisconsin, Iowa, Virginia Tech West, Virginia Tech's does Christian Oregon, Stanford, you'd of Mississippi State and Baylor. I think all of those systems would probably have greater success under this system because you'd be looking at what they do from a talent development and from an on-field perspective, and not just, whether they can stack their team.

1:00:09 With four and five star kids did. I that's such a freaking awesome way to put it. I mean, I put Kentucky in there under Mark Stoops. What? He's done. There's great put Utah. They would Kyle Winningham. I mean, never getting those top-tier guys but always finishing good. So, let me flip it around. Who's going to struggle to adapt? Who? This is not trying to be mean but which coaching staff you look at and say Jesus Christ. If I I go out there. I can make these guys 19 games without even blinking. All right, so first one's going to be the other team that likes to clean the dvu moniker Ohio State. I think they would struggle because I think they have a way of pumping five star Talent into that program with their recruiting.

1:01:01 And often times you don't see it. Pay off relative to those recruiting numbers. I think teams like my Me in Texas, you know, we always keep hearing. All right, this is this is the year for Texas or this is the year for the U. The U is back or Texas's back. I think they would struggle even more because you haven't seen progress in their own feel product, despite them bringing in top 15, top 20 classes in the case of Texas, consistently top, ten classes Penn State would see a drop off. Because again, you know, they've under a tree achieved relative to some of the recruiting numbers they brought in I'd argue teams with recruiting bumps of late would probably also struggle.

1:01:43 So, we're talking about the unc's in the Maryland's of the world that are pumping out, you know, top 5 and top ten classes so far going into 2021 that you know, we haven't seen what that on-field products going to look like yet, but I don't think you'll you won't see the buzz that it is being created around their classes. So I think that they would struggle as well and you know, UNC in Maryland have consistently not not had great on field. Dogs. And now you're starting to see them get recruits. You're like okay what's going on? That's the in they would even fall further south from that under the new system. Yeah. I'm with you on a high state right now with how much talent they have and how much talent and you watch District students, like almost are bringing in.

1:02:28 I can't tell you, if Ronde is a great head coach, a great football coach or not or if he just has a bunch of NFL players on the roster, and it doesn't really take that much to get them going. I'll put Tennessee with your Exes in your Miami assessments, they're always getting talented. Even the few years while Pruitt's been, you're still getting Talent, not producing. I do like food as a coach. I think he might be the answer there but we don't know to help the huh. I am going to disagree with you about Penn State because I do think James Franklin could be okay. He did some really good things and Bandy, he's not afraid to make.

1:03:08 Is on his staff. He's shown that even in the last few years was getting recruiting classes, he's trying to. It looks like he's trying to bring him better coaching. I think he's fallen under this thing that he is going to be a good recruiter and is becoming easier and I think he's I think he feels he's taken his eye off the ball in the coaching Twilight fired. His offensive coordinator brought in the guy from Minnesota. Now UNC in Maryland, they just have great recruiting head. Coaches, the biggest difference is this Mac has won. Games in the past, my clocks, their Sixth and 40 that's six and forty careers a head coach, that's atrocious.

1:03:49 If I were kids parents, I would just look at me like how he coached almost 50 games and you haven't even 120 yet? Yeah, I mean, I mean, you would think you would lucky. They least getting, you know, one one season, where you sneak into a bowl and he hasn't done that. I mean exactly. Alright. Alright, so there it is, folks. All right, so Curtis you laid up the plan. I've done my best to try Poke holes and bring up counterpoints our listeners can know that I give given due diligence to what you're laying out. As I said at the beginning, it's not perfect.

1:04:30 And some of the measures would make for some hard choices, but I 17 and 18 year olds because they be looking at their choice of University, kind of, in some ways being being stripped from them, ultimately. So that would be a big thing for them to have to decide on. It is also being given 80,000 dollars. Absolutely. Yeah. They're upside to that, but we're still talking about a year old guys, of which not all of them, even the five and four-star guys are gonna you know as the NCAA likes to point out you know make a career in something other than football and shit like that. So the point the point is that, you know, you're you're still talking about that that being taken from their hands in in some, some Great. So, but it would present a more balanced product on the field and it would make recruiting more about the big picture stuff, instead of the perception of a program. Big picture, meaning on the field product, and have relationships that our coach has, with the players, absolutely?

1:05:38 It would go back to that and I think my biggest takeaway from this, and what really kind of brought me to kind of say, okay, well, it's fucking out there, but, you know, let's give it a ride. I'd it is out there and but it's one of those things too. That if somebody would show the projections of those P5 conferences, hey you're going to make a lot more money a year. They look at Ohio State and they look at Texas and they look at some of your other programs and say, sorry dogs. More money is out there. Why is the NFL King right now because of parity? And that's why they have the draft. That's why you can't just walk in and say, yo, I'm the best quarterback in college on. Come play for your team.

1:06:20 Can't do that. Alright, so here's the question fans that we're going to ask you in a post out on Twitter, what schools, benefit the most from this type of draft, who suffers, we've given our answers here. So, we want to hear yours, we want to hear if you think, no Ronde is a great coach Ohio state would keep on Chuck, and they keep on going to Rose Bowls and making the playoffs. So that's the way we're going to ask you guys to come up with it Brian. Yeah, let us know. It's going to be the biggest benefactor from a draft. I think that's the thing. We want to know is like, who do you think's going to benefit the most, and who's going to suffer? Because like I said, we Curtis said we laid it out and I think some of you probably won't come up with maybe some different answers than what we came up with. So let's see what you got.

1:07:10 Absolutely. Alright. So that is we're going to put the bow on it. That's going to wrap up this This episode go to the boundary corn project. My name is Curtis Wilson, I'm Brad Ziegler. Follow the podcast on Twitter, Facebook, subscribe for your podcast on your favorite Source, including Spotify, and apple podcast. We always want our buddy. Jason long place. In play us out, catch him on Spotify, and apple music. Thanks for listening. And as always, let's go. Okay.