Miami Game Recap

0:46 Welcome back to the boundary on a podcast with my partner, Brian Segal. I'm Curtis Wilson, Brian. Go ahead. Do it. Before we start do it. I need to see it. I need to see it surrender, Cobra, man. Yeah, your boy courtesy here is putting a little bit of a beat down on me right now. Not not confirmed yet, but I'm in a position where essentially his next three players have to score. Absolutely. Thing for me to win, so it ain't happening. I'm taking the Yale Solomon it. It's all good. It's it hasn't been my year. Injuries of crush me, guys, on the covid list of crush. Me.

1:29 It just hasn't been the championship. You know? Your guys aren't as focused. Yeah. Yes, I asked you you took home everything. You were what 11 and 2 in the regular season 11 and to it. Yeah, I crush the regular season and then smoke the playoffs it. What? He's looking the playoffs. Thank you on, by 30 ghost games last year in the playoffs. I don't like it was it like a game, it wasn't like brown was sitting here on pins and needles on a Monday night. It was like I'm yeah absolutely Squad last year and nobody was really injured much. So no not many in that helps. You had a good balance. You took a few risk here and there you know the way you play Fantasy like we all should but you know I got to just throw that in. And there we had photos of our teams, had a good day. Both teams winning your Colts, put a SmackDown on the bills. I mean, yeah, that was that was big. Jonathan Taylor for MVP ladies and Gentlemen. Let's go ahead, Hank and I mean for more touchdowns today, right?

2:36 55 he got a fit. Yeah, so yeah, you guys are now right outside the wall. Wildcard, the Niners. And he went for over 200 all-purpose, rushing and receiving, he's really good. And with the Titans losing y'all inch up in the division. Every yeah, I mean, the only downside is that we got to be a full game ahead of them to actually take the division. It's not, it's no tiebreaker. We don't own the, the advantage there. So we got to be a full game ahead of them. So that's the downside. But the upside is, we just got a game closer to that, it's true. And And in the next few weeks they've got Patriots Jaguar, Steelers, 49ers, yeah, they've got like a 3 and 2 record potentially out of that.

3:26 And then y'all got, let's see. The Buccaneers next week. Texans Patriots Cardinals. Y'all got to run for path to get there especially if you know Kyler and the boys get get healthy there and they ended up playing well today, even even without Murray, they played well. So it shows you the importance in any division in football of having a good backup quarterback, right? That likes the one you can depend on. I mean, dean or cult solid but he still even you know, getting a little bit older he still can move a little bit so he still can run most more or less the full complement of that offense and and get things done so that's helped them.

4:14 And you get a you get a veteran like that that still takes care of the football, but still can do everything you need in that offense. That's what's big for them. It's very true, man. It's very true and it's you again. It just shows. The importance of it again, all levels of football and we get to talk about it. Some tonight we have and do the Hokies here. And let's just dive into it, Braun. Let's start you know, 38:26 loss, right? My mind didn't fool me a tea and 3826. I got that wrote down here because I did not. Maybe it was just having a bit.

4:58 Busy day and it was a late night. It was a loss. I didn't stay up and like, fever over it and read a million posts. It ended had some family in town taking like them, went to bed fell asleep. Yeah, I think a lot of this is because we know what's coming next. Yeah, so we're not we're not necessarily sweating. The outcomes at this point, we more or less want. To see this team play hard play play as good as they can, to close this out, and hopefully, get a game or two in the in the win column as they go about that, to really kind of bring things home on a positive note. But, you know, I think the expectations are Kids play hard and see what happens.

5:53 So we at least got part of that out of the equation. And I like some of the things I saw from j.c. from a leadership standpoint. Again, this isn't something he's doing long-term but I like I like the the fact that he was out there, you know, take taking some chances putting putting, putting the guys in calculated risk situations to get back in the Ballgame, once they fell behind early and they Did the onside kick is probably what Brian's really talking about the biggest. It was a great play at the time, it worked, it pulled us right back in the ball game again, calculated risk. I know some people saying they thought, the defense wasn't playing hard.

6:34 I didn't see that. I felt like the defense was playing hard. I think they made some really critical mistakes, but it wasn't for lack of effort. So, I did not see a team quit last night that could potentially happen when you had what happened this week. Week JC again. You said it, calculated risks made it, you know, the two-point conversion. I know it was an argument last night. Several places. Why are we going for two? I was okay with it where it where you had the momentum, the play call was to be desired, which we gonna be a bigger issue with the play called in the decision. There we were late enough in the game.

7:15 At that point, I don't have a big problem chasing points there just because you do, you get it down to a field goal. Game versus a touchdown game, it set yourself up there, so I don't have a problem with that necessarily. Lee. No, none. None with it. And again, him in the press or afterwards, I didn't get to see everything. So awesome. Quote took full responsibility said. No Asterix on this. We lost the game. You know and that's kind of what you want to hear. Lost the game. Nothing special about it. It was my duty to go out there and win the game and we lost. Yeah, so you know, we've already felt better about the if anybody wants the pressure.

8:00 On Thursday. We already talked about the injury thing AC was quickly. Very open and upfront about what happened about what's going on especially with Trey not Shadow games or I don't know what's happening. You knew what was happening. All you have to do is we'll see you Saturday. Yeah it was. This is what's going on. This is why he's doing it. This is what's this is what it is, and then we're going to keep it moving. So we're going to see the more interesting to see Monday. Which will definitely be watching that especially with what, you know, what transpired with tray. But let's flip it round. Let's start with the defense because the defense had a blunders worth of stuff. It was yeah, it was probably probably one of their worst outings in a while probably since That will Syracuse. Probably Syracuse.

8:52 Yeah, and Sarah, but Syracuse was more of a death by a Thousand Cuts after a while. Whereas you know this seem like like they it seemed like they were down this, they were down from the get-go. Yeah, they got they got there. They got their dicks kicked in the dirt early and then it took them a long time to get out there and by the Time they finally rally. The offense was doing a little bit, but it looked like it was too little too late and then a couple more big plays happen to kind of cap things off. I'm writing that one down here. Brian Dick's kicked in the dirt.

9:34 Put it on a t-shirt. Yeah, I'm gonna say this your version. Which you were the Catalyst for bronze. Usually the Catalyst for the versions just because of his background and playing, Thing after my thoughts in there but you crushed it. I'll tip the cap. Everything you said that we needed to do the things. We didn't do good it absolutely cost us. The game will start with the one thing we did do good and I'm going to ask you for a great. Let's start with gap, Integrity. Brian. I mean, the rush defense and of this wasn't really a good Miami rushing team. Only averaging about 135 yards game and we completely snuffed it out.

10:16 You know, 57 yards on six carries. What did you see? What are you grading? I guess? Essentially the front seven and the team as a whole for Gap Integrity. Yeah. This is probably one of their better games overall. I'm going to give them, I'd say it's B plus a minus range and I'm going to give a big shout-out to Keyshawn artist who was a big part of why we were able to kind of keep some of those potential first downs and not and really one that should have been a no first down that turned into one on that. That fourth down that got spotted in a full half yard off. Like it should, it should it wasn't even close. It was terrible 5 and it was reviewed and what they even better.

11:04 Come on said today, there was this perfect angle. You can see where the ball was like if you stopped it like this is where the line is. This is where the ball is and you put ball on the line and I get they can't like for whatever reason. It has to be a full speed. Look the when they look at it, whatever. But I just I don't I don't get that. But again, let's get back to what we're talking about here. So gapper Integrity again, Keyshawn artist was was really the, the big difference here. He played a majority of the snaps out there, and he really did a good job of stepping up in the gap. Giving a hard shoulder, really?

11:44 Not letting the point of contact drive him back anymore. So, where wherever he was getting the stick, that's where the tackle was made. And I think that's the difference between some of our other linebackers is that when he hits you, you go down. It's true. He does bring the Thunder and he brings the Thunder but he also has pretty good form. He had Thunders, he gets form. It's not. I'm gonna, you see a lot of guys, they bring the Thunder and they're not essentially rapping. He does when he hits he still under control and I think that's awesome. A lot of players struggle, with either being bringing the bring the lumber or forming up and being under control of the tackle, And he does a good job of kind of finding that balance where he can still bring a pop.

12:36 But but not really put himself in a bad position. Yeah, and I'm going to say this and I know some people are going to scream. Well, they did all this other stuff better. They won the game but here's the issue. The reason we had that chance in the second half is they couldn't establish a wrong. They couldn't establish a run at all compared to this game could have been hit right where we had no shot because the Gap Integrity sucked and they started running the ball at will taking long drives. Even if they didn't score, they break the break, the 40 punnet deep and we weren't doing anything offensively that game. So, So what I'd ask people to do is go back. Think about the game.

13:20 If this isn't happening decent, we don't have a fighting chance. Now, the rain starts coming down, they can't quite sling, it around as much as they want to and they could run the ball, so won't and that that enabled us to get some some plays on offense and get down the field a couple times. Have the big onside kick there. I mean, there are several things in there where that helped us really get Back into that game because it really could have went far south. If we were struggling in both phases there. So kudos to the the defensive line in the linebackers, like I said, in particular, shout out to Keyshawn artist. Probably my player the game on defense.

14:02 Nothing really negative to say about his play and like I said, I think overall front seven did a decent job. It's the secondary where well unfortunately things started falling apart. Art, well yeah, the other thing you said Brian was we have to limit the big plays and okay, we gave up two touchdowns over 50 yards. I'm one but two Harley's 55 Smith, 75 literally one play after we scored a touchdown, they take it right back to where it was. Then you had Rambo had a 39-yard. ER George had a 32 yarder Rambo. Let us up all game. 7 for 116, we talked about him, we talked about how highly Everybody was how he had solid numbers at Oklahoma. He went over 1,000 this weekend, that's really making it making himself some money this year and then Van Dyke 375, three touchdowns, Brian, let's hear a your grade and then what exactly was happening.

15:06 I mean, it's got to be an F, right? I mean, you can't give up that many big plays and, and get a passing grade, and it was a lot of things. Number one, probably the worst game of Jermaine wohlers career. Yep. And it was a, he had a very bad first half and he only had an okay second half. Yeah. And I'm not sure what was going on but it was, it was little things and big things. It was like some some of it look like efforts on. Would look like techniques on would just look like He's, you know, he just got beat like though.

15:47 It was kind of a little bit of a mixed bag of everything, which was kind of odd. Like usually, if somebody is injured, he looks like he's injured and there were a couple times where he was hopping around after a play. Especially, I think there was one, throw down the sideline on a fade to Rambo that he got called for PID, came up limping right after that. So I don't know if he's just not quite there and some some of that's best in with his mental, but he's getting beaten, a bunch of different ways. is that is Can I say this? Yeah, I think mental, you said it their mental. And if you think about the first big play of the game for Miami that it was a 30, it was the 39 yard or two Rambo, he played. Absolutely perfect coverage.

16:29 It was just a perfectly thrown ball in a perfect catch. Yeah, down the right. Sideline and my question kind of goes back, go back to yourself. You're playing, you play a perfect technique, play Everything. Perfect. And some guy just gets you beats. You sexy quarterback. Yeah. In that first play. I mean, I mean that was literally early in the game. Can that be one of those things that's just in your head, the rest of the game and then you awkwardly, you know, step on your foot and the mental part of Well they've already hit me. I'm already played perfect coverage. I stepped on my foot wrong. That doesn't feel right. I got a pi call. The next thing.

17:10 You know it's all up here and I'm the coach's job too good for this has been kind of going on the last couple weeks, though, because he had what three Pi is against Duke. He wasn't great. I know some of those were one legit Pia to. I get that, I get that but It, you know, some of this have been, he's had some rough games, the last three weeks, this is just happen to be the one where we couldn't, there was a quarterback and a receiver that can make him pay for it. And and it happened. And you know, it's sad to say, like I said, I don't know if this is just one or two bad plays and the mental spilling over into the physical that definitely can happen, you know, the whole thing, don't let one bad play.

18:02 Beat you twice. It seems to be kind of the the, the thread here. But he wasn't the only one that was struggling out there in the secondary. We had obviously early, we lost, we lost a daily. So we ended up kind of having to go different directions in the safety area there. So that's two fold, right? So, Not only are you having to have another guy on there for more snaps, but you're not able to give them as many as many blows either. So, is many blows. We taught the targeting real quick. Yeah, and I watched the pit, you be a game second one. Same way, it was shoulder. It was no ill intent, it was no real pardoning. It was just one of those things.

18:47 I'm going to throw my shoulder into him. Is it got down to my shoulder level? If you want, what do we always say? We go back again. This is what the went. They said and this is actually, do you want to call that a 15-yard penalty? Sure, right. Hey, that's fine. A hit to the Head. Fine essentially, may God's goal or ejections for that. It's bullshit. And it's got to somehow get fixed in the next year or so, Tay daily and the kid from pit should have never been off the field. In those games, I'm going to say Say something wild almost like something. Wild here. I want the referee to have discretion as to whether something is intentional or not and that can be the differentiating factor between an arc between what between ejection and just unnecessary roughness.

19:39 And the reason I say that is because we've gotten to a point where You're losing players that all they did were was making a football play. Yeah, no ill intent. No launching, no headhunting, just trying to make like, this is a guy trying to just put a strong shoulder into a guy, to finish off a tackle, and all of a sudden he drops his head. And there's a, there's a new Zone there and the defender can't change. I mean, it's a bang. Bang, play. The Defender has zero time to recognize what's happening? And it should because I think that did hurt us on the back end.

20:22 Because how early was that in the game? I'm trying to look through my notes Here, second Drive. I think it was 73 when that happened, I think. And get my notes Here. Yeah, guys. We keep notes. Believe it or not? I'm nerdy. We are because it wasn't the first drive. Now, I'm pretty sure it was the second drive. If it wasn't was the third Either way, either way it was garbage, it was garbage and it definitely hurt us, especially on the back end.

21:03 It's experiences. Take daily in putting more inexperienced guys. In. All right. Other thing Brown, you talked about was keep behind the sticks and and I'm going to say this when we did, keep them behind the sticks, they struggled and that was a way. I in the third quarter and early part of the fourth that we got back in this game because of that, but still the money stops. You know, 7 for 13, including the fourth down. Stop that wasn't a stop. So they were over, you know, over fifty percent. So Even though it was critical. What are you graded?

21:50 I mean d.c. - maybe I'm gonna go see - you know it depends on how much credit you want to give them for the fourth down. That wasn't think that's whether you go see your D here overall it wasn't bad and I think some of it we've benefited from you that period you know, late second into the majority of the third quarter where they weren't able to just sling it deep because some of the weather there. So we've The fitted from that and that I think that kind of stacks the the great a little bit there for us. So it could have been much worse potentially if they were able to play their game the whole time you guys.

22:33 But yeah about to keep him behind the sticks. Do you think? I'm going to say this was jehan's worst game, he called how many times we were in the wrong coverage for the potential because it seemed like, every time we were getting big deep downfield. I feel like a couple times. It was like cover to a couple times. It was like a cover one. We're playing straight man. And you always mentioned you like quarters recovered three look especially against downfield passing teams because Delta passing teams having those guys back. 15 20 yards, he has to anticipate right? Yep. Why was hand mixing it?

23:15 I know on the Harley play. The Cub the touchdown we were in cover two. And I asked you earlier about this so kind of give your explanation it should have been a touchdown, but should we have really been in cover two? I mean, we're uncovered to occasionally. We, we usually mix it with the cover to man under look, which I would have been okay with there because at least you would probably not have Dax matched up on a parlor here as they essentially. So so dax's responsibility is is to carry up the seam as deep as he can and in this case he did a pretty good job of limiting the space underneath to throw that The problem is that there's supposed to be another safety on top of it, but Jenkins got caught looking in the backfield and was chasing the play. Instead of being on top of the the route there and so he was out of position to be able to come up there. That's a play that was probably going to be a 30-yard Gainer anyway but it turned into a touchdown because Jenkins was out of position.

24:27 All right. Like I said I would have preferred more of that man under Look, I would prefer to us to once we realize they were slinging it all night. Go into a true nickel and while essentially have artists out there with with Connor and index off the field, not know knock and acts but artist is now our best run linebacker keep him on there and then then roll out. Connor at the backer and then get your extra corners on the field there. That would have been what I would have done, it would have helped somewhat. But again, we were still in coverages at wrong times, we were still blowing coverages blowing assignments, it was kind of a mixed bag of everything that could possibly go wrong in the secondary true and it all happened in one game, it did. And you talk about blown coverage is something else. You made a big point of on Wednesday night. Was we've got to make them settle for three. Will they got down there four times? We only held them.

25:31 The three once on two of the touchdowns it was absolutely blown coverages. The one to the tight end Mallory. Somebody completely vacated that side, am are eroding up. There was no one there so once he got by Mari and there's no one vacating that whoever was supposed to be back there vacated The Zone, it was an easy pitch for Van Dyke and then the other one, I know you talked about Keshawn artist on the other touchdown, close to the goal line, he blew It was a little play-action fake. He stuck his head in right outside. He, it was in his own. You could tell it was and that's you say what you want to say. If I can't go back and say, well, if they had been in there, right Zone?

26:18 Does it result in three? Not seven, don't know. But it gets hard to say the Mallory play was interesting because you had, you had two guys there and it looked like it was I think whoever had the the curls own was playing a little too shallow and then Waller got in no man's land where he could decide. If he was going to stay deep to make sure he didn't let something Creek behind him or come up, and get Mallory. And by the time, he decided to come and get Mallory was too, late way too late. And that was on a, that was on a field side blitz. So your best pass rusher in bar. No, is riding up now.

27:00 Hurry up the sidelines in that case, right? Yep. Yeah. And like I said, I'd have to look at the tape again to see who had that other that other part of the Zone there. But yeah, Walter got kind of in, no man's land and just didn't make the right choice there. I think if he realized that there wasn't anyone, coming across the field behind him. He would have probably came up and made a play. Probably could have had a pic if he, you know, recognize the the route on time. But, you know, I think he was thinking too much on that one. Very true. All right, Brian. So overall defense it was just not a good night for those guys regardless they had their moments that dead us, get back into it but essentially they gave up another couple late that essentially put the game away from Miami. Let's let's go to another unit that had been the best unit. We've had all year our special teams unit as far as it goes. For the return coverages.

28:01 I mean definitely their worst 86 yards on kickoff. Turn 65 on punt, returns, and mean that's 150 plus yards. That is a ton of field position with a defense that's struggling. And it looked like just to me, not really. It wasn't like really bad play that play calls. You only have so many it. Look, just like terrible technique and terrible leverage. Every single time. Yeah, there was one, the big, the one long kickoff. Looks like guy got out of got of his Lane, got blocked a little bit and it just opened up there was a crease there. We have one that thankfully got called back. It was an awful night for the coverage, man. I just think that for something that's been a strength, all year.

29:00 It's odd to see that that breakdown. And I don't know if it was leveraged, I don't know if it was you know some of it was leverage. Some of it could have been. All right. You got the element you're dealing with that. But I mean everybody else is dealing with that too. Yeah. You can't really use that as an excuse. You just got to go out there and try to do better next time. Well, after the first punt return. Turn. Yeah, that was the sealer right there. Yeah, sorry, it's okay. Herbert Herbert to Eckler and steel, bronze fate. Sorry, bud. But the first punt return. Like, we have the guy trap and for some reason, They can't remember the number, but the guy seems to step left and I'm sitting like why are you stepping left? Right is all of the open field.

29:50 All you need to do is step right? And force them back up inside. At least he's going towards the sideline, he stepped left. He went right around. And next, it was a 40-yard game and they were already having success. So, you know, you gotta understand where your Leverage is, and where your help is. And that's an instance of missing both. Now, I would I would find it Interesting, you know, to see how many younger guys. If this was one of those things where well it's late in the season we need to start gluing some guys, some PT, you know, essentially they're not that weird. They're going to even if we go to a bowl game, they're going to get their red shirt. So I wonder if that was part of it, I might look back on some of the condensed versions. See if we can find out who they were on those and see if it was, maybe lesser Not lesser skilled guys. But lesser got guys with lesser PT on the field less experienced, folks.

30:50 Yeah, Special Teams. You. Yeah, it could be I tend to unless it's somebody that I recognized right off. I tend to not pay a ton of to of attention to who's making the plays on special teams as long as they are made, especially on some of those coverages just because you don't see quite as many Star. There's all those units. Absolutely sorry, brother. Let's flip over to the offense. Now, we're rolling here about 30 minutes, deep, let's talk about the rushing offense. If you had had to go somewhere, didn't get to see the game. But I texted, you Braun 43, rushing 227 yards over five.

31:31 Carry the seems good, right? That seems about what I was hoping for in the game. But then if I told you, well, Thomas got seven carries raheen Got Two Carries The ACC running back of the week last week. Got to carries Keshawn King got to carries. And then I told you blumrich and Bebe. Got blumrich 30 bb10. Tell me what would be in your mind? And what would you want to do to certain people? Yeah, this is a big problem. So let's talk about a few things because there there's, there's layers to this, right?

32:11 Well, it's a little like it. It's so, and I'm good with plumber, getting out there. And the way that we started, the game plumber CAD packages that he was coming in. There was like, you know, the wild turkey. There was some other, the other things that he was doing just straight quarterback sweeps, quarterback leads, you know, there's a handful of things that they were throwing out there just to mix it up and Not use BB on a ton of these design runs LED BB if he's going to run be a scramble drill or something like that. And BB had a couple big runs. Early 11, pretty big one where it looked like as fast as I've seen him run that, that was what I he's shown speed, but I didn't really appreciate how fast he could really be until that play.

33:06 But we just Had we haven't seen enough of that consistently just because he's been pretty much banged up. I mean, kind of since week one. Right. He had a little little nicked in that game. He's been a little Nick's since then it's been ribs. It's been a little hand. It's been like, it's been a little bit of everything right shoulder. So but then we ended up just 30 carries by our quarterbacks. I just I don't know what to do with that. I get that there was we got to a point where BB was nicked again and you got blumrich. So you know you're going to get you know, the Notre Dame game plan script from that point on you know that we saw a couple years back.

33:54 We QP you're going to get that type of script but not giving it to the running back since the baffling part, it's one thing. If you're devoting yourself to the run, it's completely different. If you're just using your quarterbacks as bad, Battering rams, which is just what we did. Yeah. And the problem I have with that is that if you look at some of the other things is that it created other problems for the offensive line and there was some trickle down there. So let's go ahead and talk about that. And I know we have it in a different order, but I'm going to leave with this, the Caden more pull sack, some of that is set up directly because we were not using our Our running backs. So, so if you're is, if you're covering a read option or any sort of quarterback Rush the where there's an option for the quarterback to give primarily you're going to use, either a squeeze or a pop technique.

34:50 You're going to either squeeze to kind of slow play it. Make the quarterback make a choice. And then you want to try to get them to keep it. So you can come up, make the play or pop it. You're going to essentially attack the mesh Point, either you're going to make the quarterback, give it or you're there to make it make a tackle. Well, once they saw, we weren't handing the ball to the running back. It was pop all day. They were going right at the mesh point every single time. Every time there was no waiting. There was no, there was none of that. No. Hesitant I'm going right at the quarterback and he's either. Going to give it because it's smart where I'm going to get me a big play in the backfield.

35:31 And though in the backfield and here's one where we got it, we got a counteraction counter play action on a on a pass and Cadence pulling across the formation to essentially block. The guy that would normally be a read and a read option. But he's already thinking all right with this is a read-option. I'm attacking the mesh point, he's flying up field. He's five yards up field before Caden even gets into the position there. So it's not so much. That that play can't work or that scheme, can't work. But in this situation, and I'll critique Kayden here, a little bit, probably a bad, bad step a little bit slow getting across there, but it's made worse by the fact that, that, that defensive end is flying up filled already. It was, it was worse than because they already knew tendency, right?

36:24 Yeah. Tendency was, they're not giving it, he's going to keep it. So I'm just going to fly off. And if he gives it a oh well they're down in the game, it was just like it's this whole thing that again, this offensive coordinator cannot grasp. In that case, if you start giving it more up the middle or even on those the beers we saw, you will make them have to start thinking again because Malachi Thomas or Rahim blacks year or even key Chongqing, you make the wrong mistake on them and they get the scene, it's a house call it's 40 or 50 yards, if they had no fear of it, they got the ball seven times, they got the ball. Basically 12%.

37:16 No team is going to be scared of the running backs if you're giving them 12 percent especially a guy like Rahim that does better with volume and Malachi does better with volume as well. They do you get them more carries they are more consistent so you got kind of essentially cold backs at this point right back to them. Either been blocking most of the game or having been on the field or been decoys. Yeah. Like so like Essentially carried your offense since Notre Dame, right? Yep, since Notre Dame or decoys in a game, you need to get Bowl eligible on the road.

38:00 Yeah, somebody doesn't want a job after this. Somebody doesn't want a job. Somebody's looking at Nathan Hale, with, with a big grin right now. He's like, all right, I'll be there next year. Yeah. Hey, five years here at 500 thousand dollars out. Is my money, let's the passing offense, you know, it wasn't help. We did give up for sex. We had six tackle, they had six tackles for loss ugly, stat line to me. Ugly passes 19, 428 148, three, touchdown passes. All of them were right at the goal line, and just some of the ugliest freaking passes, it was raining.

38:43 Yes. But they were still Ugly. I don't care what anybody says, I'm with you. And I mean, so let's start with one thing. The offensive line didn't have the greatest night in pass, bro. It wasn't awful, but it was one of their definitely in the lower 50% of their effort this year. That was compounded a little bit by a lot of the things that we're going on behind the line of scrimmage with the quarterback situation. And as you said, 19 2848, three touchdowns a lot of that was About three plays two of which were to sorry, one of which was to Trey Turner that get injured on and really if Trey Turner doesn't make two plays and then you've got some of the other younger guys that were going to talk about a little bit.

39:37 Making a couple of plays that stat line going to be been even worse. I sat like them, like these weren't routine catches. Ladies and gentlemen, this this This was pulling the rabbit at your head a little bit. That's that line. Legitimately could have been 15 for 28, maybe 85 yards. Maybe somewhere somewhere, thereabouts, maybe 100, maybe, 150, go back and do the math. It wouldn't have been over 150. I know that. No, but let me ask this Brian. You were going into UVA next week. You mentioned that you about Connor, you mean that ugly screen pass.

40:20 Good Lord, he threw that thing right into the dirt, but as it is, he is even better chance on the ball. So, I'll say this, you talk about the one in the dirt, but then he talked about when Brax was in there. He sailed one about 10 yards above tase head, so I don't know which is worse. Neither were catchable unless you were in the immediate vicinity Sanity of the quarterback. So I'll tell you the one thing that blumrich does is that he does throw a ball more than 15 yards, downfield, that gives our receivers a chance to make a play on it. He does that better than Braxton. What Braxton has is.

41:04 He has accuracy in the short game when he's able to have a clean pocket step into it, make a good throw. He doesn't have the arm strength to do anything beyond that. He doesn't throw the out very good. He's got to drive it. He doesn't throw a good deep ball, he doesn't really do a good job of attacking the middle of the field. So, you know, maybe blumrich as sad as it is to say gives us the better chance because he does put a ball up there down the field that gives our receivers a chance to do something with it. Maybe we stick with him just because he is also the more durable quarterback.

41:50 If we are going to stick with running our quarterbacks this much in the UVA game as well, it can times. Yeah, it'll be it'll be I'm sure Monday. Presser something will be asked about that so it'll be sort of mind-blowing. We've got, you know, 76 days roughly give or take you mentioned it earlier a little bit of you. Movement on probably counter bluemix best thrown ball downfield, Dwayne Lofton. He gave him a chance and Duane caught it. Yeah. And I mean that was that's a tough throw and he put it where only Lofton could get it and Lofton winning got it. Yes he did full extension.

42:36 It was it was probably one of the two best plays the night and Trey Turner had the other one on the The catch it at the goal, line there for the touchdown, very vintage Odell Beckham jr. Esque. But, but we also had Jalen Jones, get a big catch on a dig across the middle where he took a big pop after the catch. So you know, those two guys getting involved in the passing game is Big I'd like to see more of that. I'm sad that we Didn't see more earlier in the season, especially for the fact that, I'm pretty sure this point, lofton's shirts, burnt despite not really getting a whole lot of actual targets, right?

43:26 I want to say he, I want to say he's played in at least four at this point. Give me a second here, while I'm looking that up, Brian, let me ask this, give me the overall assessment of the offensive coordinator. Tell me. Tell me right now. Like you know, he's coaching for his future and I know where We've joked about it but let's be serious right now. I mean, is he going D to best at best at best at best? I can't see him getting a coordinator job. Like he's not going to get any decent FCS coordinator job.

44:11 At all. I mean he's just like his only hope is for one day gets a G5 job in hires and I mean the thing is that the the Secret's out on him at this point. This isn't this isn't a guy that's having a bad run or a guy that doesn't have the talent rate. This is a guy that has shown who he is what he is. We've got guys on the record saying what he does. Yeah, you know the only thing that he As well at this point, is misdirection with motion. That's it.

44:51 You get to you. Get to the linebackers eyes moving in the wrong direction on occasion. Okay. Good for you dictate where the balls going to go eventually. You don't think they can. You don't think these guys who are coached and watch a ton of tape, say the coaches on the sidelines, when you see this play happen, just go just go with this guy. Why? Because homeboy over there is going to tell them to give it to this guy. There's not going to be every or or tell him not to, you know, a lot of times it's either. Sometimes the the window dressing gives away the play and then sometimes the window dressing, you just need to ignore. And once you figured out what window dressing to pay attention to and which ones to ignore the, the Secret's out, very true Braun. Alright Braun.

45:34 You know, before we get into looking at some coaching candidates for the Virginia Tech job guys, we like we told you Wednesday, we did a bunch on this. We are going to take a quick pause from our digital partners. If you take a quick break, we like to tell you about getting your free website report from our digital partner, Grassroots, digital marketing Studio. They'll tell you how your website ranks on Google on-site, SEO and social media. No commitment to buy anything. You can get your free report by visiting. Grassroots digital studio.com forward slash free Dash website, Dash report. Now back to the episode Alright guys, so we have made a list of close to 15 guys and we made a list of no chance and he'll and we made a list of one guy we want, but would probably get.

46:33 So we're going to start with the Ford our courses. There's been some rumors of these guys. We just in hindsight we can't see any of these guys actually accepting this job or us offering the job. Job and those are these four as follows. Byron Leftwich Tampa Bay Buccaneers offensive coordinator Bill O'Brien, the OC at Alabama for an NFL head. Coach Hugh freeze at Liberty and Brent pry, who's the defensive coordinator up at Penn State? I'd say two of these. We probably will, at least contact how far we get the process. I don't know, I'd say Bill O'Brien and Brent pry, or more of A four or more likely to get into the process here? I don't know, I don't know what you what your opinion is on that.

47:24 But that would be the two that I would say, have a better chance in the Dark Horse category here. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that. I don't know. A lot of people, I got text about Buddy last night. Like Hugh freeze like we're not hiring Hugh, freeze Hugh. Freeze has a stain on him that I don't think our Administration ill will go for Or I just don't think, I think it would be a good hire. I don't think that Virginia Tech goes that route. If, for whatever reason, whether it's, Which choice, whether it's, you know, guys on the board of visitors that aren't willing to sign that check or sign off on that, there's going to be pressure from for multiple levels to probably not give you freeze the look.

48:09 He probably deserves and that's just you called that a fit Choice. Whatever it Is. I mean, some of it is, is being able to fit into that that type of parameters. So if you got a guy that's that's budding against your board of visitors, every couple months that's probably not a good thing. So that's probably why it's not going to happen. Like I said, I think he if it was my choice and I mean, being he'd be in my top five. So, But now I'm going to say this though, with LSU already being open and now Florida coming, open put Dan Mullen as a dark horse to.

48:52 It's just later in the process, but I think now he has his sights on two programs. And I'm not saying they don't care about what happened before but it's less like you listen we don't really care. We just want to win 85 to 90% of the time and compete for championships. So there Our I just mentioned five Dark Horses. They're there on our minds we just can't see them going any further. But let's start with the first name here. Brian. I'm going to do the program. Will do the cons have little back and forth. Mike Elko Texas, A&M defensive coordinator couple of his prose y'all.

49:34 He had been with Dave place. And previously had two very successful students with Clausen before he went up to Notre Dame and Texas A&M much bigger time programs. He does have Obviously some ties to the state of Virginia recruiting being at Richmond with Clawson and then being at Wake Forest his defense is always been good. Like he's never had like the worst defense in the country. Obviously, it's gotten better looks as he has gotten more Talent, especially Notre Dame for a few years. And again, being at Wake Forest, they had some solid defense has obviously has a little bit of Player Development to go along with his good recruiting Yeah, and for the cons, the big thing we're looking at is really no head coach experience, that's out. The gate is going to be the big one, and that might be the one thing that keeps him off with its radar. I know he said that he's not shying away from guys that have only been coordinators, but he also is, you know, he said the power 5 job in the ACC being your first head coaching gig is going to be a tough jump.

50:48 So I think he's only going to look at a coordinator. If it's absolutely 100%, the guy he wants or the guy that he thinks is going to be the best fit. So that's kind of where we are with with the cons and you know, we got another one here. Most recruiting success has been in Texas and that's really the big thing. When you look at his recruiting numbers and the guys that he's pulled, most of those big recruits have been in Texas. We know how that's Or he goes in terms of how that relates to Blacksburg, you know, you can pull one or two. It's not something where you can build a pipeline and he really, you know, in terms of being on the the head coaching radar, he really hasn't been on that that radar until some of the success recently at a.m. and then you previously at Notre Dame's.

51:40 So Elko is really kind of a new face in terms of being on the head coaching radar. I don't know if that's necessarily something that would shot folks away from it, but it is something to look at there. Yeah, yeah. When you balance is pros and cons, would it be? Would we be throwing things and on the drive to Miriam and to pick it? No, we will. And I think you'd be an okay higher but I but I definitely think we can do better. I do think Elko is on the verge of probably the next Two years. He's going to get a head coaching job. I do not think he will get a big P5 job. I think he will have to land somewhere like a Wake Forest like a Syracuse and build his ilk from there. Yeah.

52:29 If he's going to go power 5, probably the bottom end, you know, maybe maybe even Duke if that comes open. No, not that. I wouldn't want it either. I'm just saying he might take it anyway. Yeah, I'm kind of with you there. I think the big thing with Elko is that, you know, we don't know a whole lot in terms of what that what he would look like as a head coach. And I think that's something that unless he's got, he checks a whole lot of other boxes that might be the thing that holds him back. Absolutely. So let's go ahead and move on to. We'll talk next about Josh Gaddis. Some of the pros for Josh Gad is he was born in played in the region so that that's, that's a big thing for him. He's had some big stops in his career, big stops throughout his career.

53:22 He was an NFL draft pick and player. So having that NFL experience, definitely adds to the pedigree there has some experience in Mid-Atlantic recruiting And he was the recruiting coordinator at Penn State. So I think that's really when you look at the overall body of work there, some pretty good things to talk about, what are some of the cons on Gaddis there? Curtis it goddess. Michigan OC. You know, first of all it's the one, the next shower. And a kind of cart seeing a trend here. He has no head coaching experience at any level. Here's my biggest con what we mean by we're talking about us.

54:03 When Mike's locksley got his But Maryland, he and Gaddis were Colo seeds. When locksley got the job, he was not internally promoted immediately to hit offensive coordinator and essentially when that happened, you know, he left, he went up to Michigan and since he's been at Michigan, it's taken a little bit of time to, you know, kind of kind of show exactly what he's all about. You know, he's been at Michigan now. This This his third season they were is okay. In 2019, they didn't look great. Last year, they're finally hidden strides this year, biggest test this weekend, against Ohio State, and this is one.

54:52 I always talk about. He's only ever coached Elite Talent as a. No. See. And when you start coaching guys, at that level, Is it, is it some of what you say and do helps you? But when you have the best players for near the top of the best players at every single position as an offensive coordinator, Some things it's just like, you know, I hate to say there's something like well, let's just run a power over, right? 37-yard touchdown. Yay, great call. Now that's deployers so, you know, if he's hired you feel like, you know, probably haven't seen any interviews with Josh cow so you probably feel he probably got a good personality.

55:45 Leti where he recruits, but I think he's one of those jobs if he continues to do good in Michigan. If they, if they beat Ohio State next week and they go to the playoffs, I think he will get a solid head coaching job somewhere. Yeah, I agree. I think. with Gatos, he's probably one of the more under the radar coordinators that's made our list here. I would say, I think he is getting a lot of good. Looks some of that is, you know, because he was born and played in the region. And I think some of that is just his overall pedigree and then the couple big stops with Penn State and out at Michigan that he's had, you know, Bama in there as well. So you will see if he ends up staying on the radar as we kind of Move Along here.

56:43 True. So who's up next buddy up? Next Marcus Freeman. Defensive coordinator had a Notre Dame, you know, his prose wherever he's been at. He's shown the ability to recruit. Good players. And it's it's something that sticks because he was at Purdue. He was at Cincinnati. If you've ever seen him speak and I got to watch a video, his personality, it will blow you away here in the sky. Talk about his philosophy about players. You go to YouTube, just find a market screaming interview and that will partially sell you on why he's above, you know, a few other guys who had a little bit more timely programs.

57:32 Yeah, he wins player at Ohio State. What he's done, it's in C and Notre Dame. Last few years that's that's something its culture, right? Winning culture is a thing. They haven't given up a touchdown in the last three weeks ever know they haven't, they haven't even touchdown. Now, the other thing I like about him and again it goes back to this being where he is now at Notre Dame with the Elite Talent like guy like Kyle Hamilton, but he was at Cincinnati where he had to develop guys. So he's showing you that combination that to me is, why hit some had coaches? Do so well, which will about Nick Saban. He has a ton of four and five.

58:18 Star guys, but you also see three star guys coming there and make impacts right. He knows how to fix the elite, he knows how to coach Developmental and to me to be a top, 15 top 20 program, that's a balance, you have to have someone. We just mentioned, I don't think Dan Mullen knows how to do that down in Florida. That's why you got fired. I think Dan knows how to coach developmental Talent. He hasn't found a strive for the Elite Talent guys. I think he I think he can consistently recruit top 30 classes, but he has to do more of the on the development side. He's not a guy that can take, he's not a guy that can get Florida, the classes.

58:58 They should be able to get but he also doesn't know how to handle those guys once they get in the door either. Absolutely. All right, Brian. Let's look as much as we just. I just drooled all over Freeman. There are some cons there. Yeah, I mean the big one. This is still consistent is going to be consistent with every coordinator that hasn't had a head coach experiences that no head coach experience at this point. So any any We're taking on Freeman. Will have that risk associated with it. That's just going to be something. We're going to have to potentially deal with and the second one being he's only been at one place where he's had big expectations and that's where he's at now and he's only been there, you know, 90% of one season.

59:45 So That's, that's interesting angle there. Just because you know, while since he had expectations for a G5 school, you know this wasn't make the playoffs type expectations. He's at he's at a place now where the expectations to make the playoff and he's showing out thus far. But this is really, you know, a very small sample size at this point and the last one being he's only really ever coached in the Upper Midwest. We talked about Purdue Cincy. Notre Dame obviously has OSU ties there so in state. Yeah, Indiana that's it.

1:00:28 So high. Oh, state is the closest he's ever been to the Mid-Atlantic and again, that's another cell. But again I think my positive listen to him talk. I think that guy could walk into any The Mid-Atlantic household and silica ball program. Yeah, and we've seen and we've seen it done. I mean, he's got some once he started it. A lot of was sensing a lot especially now with Notre Dame. He's recruiting players from all over the country and he's having success wherever he's recruiting. So I don't think the recruiting part of it is necessarily a problem and I don't necessarily think that will have a problem in terms of the fit in terms of His personality. Whereas in Puente some of you know Oklahoma Texas type demeanor, rub some wrong way.

1:01:29 I don't think you'll have that with Freeman even though he's not necessarily a regional guy. Yeah. So those are the cons for Freeman. I feel really good about Freeman Freeman, is probably the highest I am on any coordinator on our list. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm with you on that who we got next O'Brien? All right, next up. We got Tony, Elliott, offensive coordinator at Clemson. This is a name that was very high on the buzz list last year when we thought Fuente might be out following the covid year, the big thing out the gate. This guy can recruit his ass off.

1:02:12 You look at some of the recruits. He's pulled in. It's a who's who of the big-name Clemson guys that have walked through the door? And he has lower Mid-Atlantic recruiting experience. So he's recruited up into Virginia. He's recruited a lot and the Carolinas or crew delight and Georgia some in Florida and really completely torn it up and his offenses have set records. I mean we look at 2021 is really the big outlier. Some of that has to do with some of the limitations He's had with his quarterback play overall, he's more of a running backs ISO. You know, I'm not sure if we'll see.

1:02:55 See, that type of thing carry over there, but his offenses have done well, with really good talent. And with, you know, just above average Talent you, he doesn't need a five-star. Number one or two quarterback in the class to get it done. And his position group is always performed. Like I said, with the running backs there, they've always had pretty good. Numbers Shipley's do is probably the bright spot of that offense this year. Overall, obviously Travis at TN, completely tore it up when he was here, and when you listen to this guy, talk much like Freeman, very infectious personality type of guy, you want to play for type of guy, you want to hear speak about that your program?

1:03:41 So Curtis we talked about the pros. What are some of the cons here man? One of the cons is again no head coaching experience and it's very limited recruiting in the DMV are very limited. He this isn't like his primary or his primary areas down in Georgia and Florida. So he has submitted Land Experience. But he's not, it's not a ton of where we, where we feel like we need to see it. He's only ever coached and state of South Carolina. Clemson and firm, that's it. So that's that's one of those. I'm not going to say it's a red flag. At least it's only two states away, you know, and it's in your footprint. So probably gets a feel a little bit about the type of recruiting Virginia Tech can do and here's my biggie. You talked about having either Elite or above-average Talent. So, basically Brian saying five or four, H thumb 3. How does he?

1:04:44 How does he coach not only Talent? And it's, and I know of Clemson's a little different. They do have some, I guess you could say scheme fit guys, and some more locker room guys than a place like, Alabama, Ohio State, but it's still a bunch of talent. It's still a top 10 talented team. And when you start taking guys away from that, and putting them in that where we are right now, we're sitting 40. Usually we set somewhere, Between about 22 and 30, right? How are you going to get 25 to play like 10?

1:05:24 It's tough because when I say, call power 0 and they go 37 yards for a touchdown, can't do that anymore because it's not all there. I like Tony. I think Tony has taken a hit this year with the way the offense is looked. And then I do some of that's fair and some of that's not but I mean, it kind of is what it is. You take it. Hit even, you know, whether it's dessert or not, you're the face of the offense so it kind of comes with the territory, right? It's true. You're the face and especially when the guy that, you know, he was calling with went to South Florida and now he's not doing girl.

1:06:04 Great at all. But it's one of those things. I don't think Tony line Lanes anywhere this year. I think he's cooled off, but I think what will be interesting to see what happens is with him and Dabo Brannan, Street is a quarterback coach, right? Yep. If that's the issue does Dabo pull the trigger because Dabo has done that a few times. He's like, guys, go a couple. Guys have had good success in left. We're going. Talk about another guy pretty pretty soon here that he did that with. Yes, we are. All right, but Brian, who's our next candidate up? All right, so next up, we've got Dan landing, d.c. at Georgia. All right, so Dan Landing guys.

1:06:49 His prose experience with winning programs. Always a big thing has a winning culture already instilled in him and you know, when we sit here and talk about well besides Georgia, you know, where else has he been? Well he was with Mike Norvell in Memphis because of potential Memphis connection, that was 16 and 17. When again over L came in there, kept the one day going he was also at Sam Houston State, a pretty good FCS power so you know it's like we win we win we win. Yep. Georgia since 2018 and his unit you know whether it be the outside line backing unit always good at Georgia or now the whole defense in general.

1:07:42 They're an elite level. And I know they've got five star studs, all over the place. Other teams due to the what he's getting out of them. This year says a lot about him because they're dominating. Yeah to unprecedented levels in this era. Now, one more good thing about him Landing does has a purty good Mid-Atlantic footprint for his recruiting. So it's not like that culture shock of coming from the Midwest or the Upper Midwest. He's down at the Mid-Atlantic, similar to Tony, even though there's not a lot of DMV in there I still think that I think you would understand the cultures that are than guys coming out from the west or even the Midwest.

1:08:36 All right Ron, what's the cons? So Collins I mean we've already said it for a lot of these guys with the big one is going to be the new head coach experience. We really don't know how he's going to handle a head coaching experience. Would he be a CEO type of guy that can work with the donors? All the stuff, the things that a coordinator don't have to deal with, you know? Will he be able to handle those types of roles and the other? The other big one here is that he's really only been on the coaching radar since he's been a coach. Be coaching elite players at Georgia. He wasn't a guy that was looking to make a big step up before that. Now he's at Georgia. He's coaching elite players and now all of a sudden he's getting some head coaching bugs so that may be a little bit of a red flag but overall Landing has a good good overall resume. I don't like him quite as much as Freeman in terms of just the other upside that he brings to the table. But I do think that he would be a pretty okay, fit. That ended up being the route, be went with. Yeah, I think you'd be an okay fit kind of get us back to, you know.

1:09:47 The the Beamer Bud type mentality especially on the defensive side of the ball but I think he's a year away. Yeah, mean if you pull the trigger on him now maybe the biggest upside is you probably can get them a little bit on the cheap. But I think there's enough read their where you say he needs one more year. He needs a lot of these guys on this defense to go away which is going to happen this year with Georgia. How does he do it next year? Because I think if they dominate like they did this year, they lose people, their top 15 defense next year, then he's going somewhere, interesting to see where. All right, Brian.

1:10:27 We're going to stop right here because everyone else on this list is a head coach somewhere. Somewhere, but we wanted to bring up some names. Just so people can get this out of this is the boundary Corner podcast saying this. There's some people, these people, this is not, these are absolutely not happening. Let's start number one. Prime, shame, Beamer Shane, Beamer Shane. Beamer could have happened last year. It will not be happening this year. Go ahead and write it off. And there's, and there's several reasons that Shane's not happening. Right? Well, yeah, I mean, aside from every, every reason that was brought up last year, we paying at the dam by out to get Shane out of that contract in South Carolina, 17 and a half. That alone is why it's not happening. So number 2, Ed order on all of that is not happening. No, it's not happening.

1:11:28 Tokyo's 61 years old. I love the guy's personality, but I do not want him as my head coach, after what I've been hearing about going on and LSU about his age. I think he's a damn fine coach overall, but I don't think that what he brings to the table. Is a good fit for Blacksburg right now, right now. Now now, well, I think Ocho is going to land somewhere head coaching. Probably not. But I think he's going to go out there and do the kids because kocho recruiting pitches and he's going to help some team out. If I'm Hill, whoever the USC candidate is, I'm immediately picking up cut. You want to be the asuc and my recruiting coordinator. Absolutely, absolutely.

1:12:16 Number three. Yeah, we love them and he is an icon but he's not coming back y'all, but Foster is not coming out of retirement, Bud. Foster loves the lake and doesn't want to blow up his heart. So let Bud enjoy the lake, the enjoy, the boat enjoy, coming to games, where he doesn't get quite as worked up as he does on the sidelines and let him enjoy it. It's not happening. I mean it could have happened six years ago and I have been 110 percent fine with it it should have happened 10 years ago.

1:12:57 Yes you could have happened 10 years ago, I'm with that and even if it didn't it should happen. Six years ago, I would have been perfectly fine with that higher. So unfortunately we're at a point where that, that that has passed and the last one guy's is Gary Patterson, because that would not work at all. Anyone Thinking it would is outside their damn mind. They're outside their mind. It's again age. Kocho and gay, Patterson, same age, 60, plus years old. You can't fire a head coach and then hire his mentor. He can't can't do that. Maybe that's why. I didn't get the job because essentially it's kind of what happened but now the Gary Patterson things just not happening, you see it out there you kind of chuckle but bra. On there is one guy that we did not put on this list and we would absolutely love to have this guy. Love it.

1:13:59 Yep. Oz not that big track records. Great. But it's just not happening, it's not happening, and it's Luke fickle. And the reason it's likely not happening is because of the move of Cincy into the Big 12. And I think that move is essentially a green light for fickle to take as much time waiting on a blue blood program to come calling as it takes through whether that's this year or whether that's two to three years from now. Now, after he's LED since e, 22 straight college football playoffs, but exactly, and whatever whatever it is. Yeah, I think fickle because of that move because of the new money that's going to be coming into that school because of that move because of their being bump, he's going to get because of that move.

1:14:51 He doesn't need to go anywhere. Yep, he gets, he's gets to wait till he is ready. The fit is right 100% for him. And, you know, probably the Price is Right as well, if they, if the Big 12 can stay kind of the relevancy where it is right now and he starts running shop there every year. Why is he ever going to leave? I can make the playoffs every year, so why am I going to leave this? So, but that's that list. Now, let's start with the list of current sitting head, coaches, we feel potentially have a shot and we're going to start with wheel. Heat, will he lie down at UNC Charlotte?

1:15:33 He's younger than us. I don't know if that's a be over on you know, say what you will but let's start this. Everything says, is that he can sell the hell out of a program. Everything you read, you hear people talk about them, the guy knows how to sell a program. He's obviously, UNCC. So he is clearly in Virginia Tech's recruiting footprint, so he probably has begin building relationships inside the state of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia. I know South Carolina for a fact, had a family member go to one of his camps a couple summers ago. There you go. He did show recruiting prowess at the FCS level. So, obviously somewhat of a good salesman, the you of our grad thing, we put it on here as a pro because at least if you're a, you of our grad, you've been in the state and you sow know, the hierarchy, you know, the lay of the land, you know how the college high school ranks, operate to some degree. And you probably know the importance of Virginia Tech football to people.

1:16:37 Yep. Go to you of are you probably dealing with? Body whose family is a hokey and lose their minds more than likely at least one coach on that staff, is either a former hokey or has ties to the program in some way. Yeah. And then, Brian you threw this on here because this wasn't on here the other day Club lit. A, he likes to have a fun locker room. Yeah, there are no silent dinners there. There's no quiet. Getting ready for a game. He lets the kids hang loose because I think a, he's a young enough guy because he's 34, I believe it's still in the back of his mind, probably his college days, and the looser, you are, the less you think about. So there the pros, Shout out club lit. You know who you are out there?

1:17:33 Let's go with the cons. Brian, what are you saying? I mean, the biggest one, you never coached at a power five school at any level position anything. He below. 500 as a head coach. Now, I will throw out there that his first year at Austin Peay brings this metric down significantly. But overall is a head coach. He is, he is well below 500 so that's something that could be a red flag for a lot of folks. Even He's had some success at a place like UNC Charlotte, that hasn't seen a ton of it, so that's one thing to look at and really he was a we've got a limited sample size of him as a FPS head coach at this point.

1:18:23 So we're not sure you know, is what he's been doing the early returns something that will Trend over a five-year span or is that something that, you know, the Fuente pump that we saw in, 18 and 17 that will Peter off. Yeah. And, you know, the UNC Charlotte is an upstart program, you know, it's one of those. You to FBS. So him getting that job was crazy in the first place and he said, middle and success. There he did go to a bowl game as first-year had a great turnaround at Austin Peay and what you here again about this guy is, if you want to get excitement going and getting people to pay, it seems like he is that type.

1:19:12 He is a see, he's never coached a P5, not not a lot of positions. I know you mentioned his Have got it up here his Chattanooga when he was there for six years, it's just labeled assistant that even guys who coach it that level. Normally if you go look up something out there on them. It gives a little more detail but just an assistant there you know it did say does some quarterback coaching wide receiver coaching recruiting coordinator passing game coordinator. So it literally sounds like if they had a position to be filled, they just gave it to him.

1:19:54 Which is, I don't know if that's good or bad. So, I mean, I could I could deal with Healy. I would worry about the staff, though, because he doesn't have that many connections. I think there would be money for the staff. I really do because I don't know. Yeah, I don't think he would want to five million dollars? No, no. He's more of a probably to meal or less would get it done for him that opens up some more for your assistant coach salary pool. It run up the numbers later as Reach For Excellence, reaches its peak and when you get some more room to have some flexibility there, so there's some options there. If you get Healy in as your head coach, especially if he's able to sell the program here, like he's been able to do elsewhere. But it's a lot of risk involved there. You don't know exactly what you're getting is, a head coach because of the limit sample size and you don't know how that success or at least middling success will translate to power 5.

1:21:05 All right. Ian Brown, who you got next? Next up, this one's going to be fun to talk about. It's David, Claussen head coach Wake Forest. You know, we got some pros here that will talk about. We got some cons for the pros. It's a guy that's been really successful at every stop, even if he hasn't necessarily Blown Away In The Wind, the win-loss record, he's definitely been successful. And he is a Player Development Guru. If you if you want a guy that can take your three star and turn them into all-conference players, he's got the ability to do that.

1:21:45 Got connections to Virginia recruiting from his time at Richmond. From his current time. At Wake Forest, he is a mi kyung, High floor, type higher u.s. trying now. you know, it's a guy that You know, you probably need the right guys around him too, but he's not, he's never going to be a guy that will go out there and get U sub 500 records in back-to-back Seasons. He may not get you to the promised land though unless a lot of things go as way. He understands complementary football, a lot of times when you see the one side of the ball, go down the other side. Can tries to pick it up.

1:22:35 That didn't happen this past weekend, but And it's a guy with the right offense in the right, right? Flow of the game, can score bunch of points and get the right pieces in place there. But there are some cons to this higher Curtis what you got. Well the biggest con is high, he's never been at a high priority on. He's only been at 1/2 pry profile program in his long tenured coach in here and that was one years in OC at Tennessee. He never had any Vacations, there's no expectations at U of R. There was none in Bowling Green, there's none at Wake Forest.

1:23:16 So immediately you walk in and you sit here at Wake Forest if they go seven and five for the next decade and make a bowl at programs happier and hell. They are the other, the other big things is as much success as he's had, we're winning and going to bowls. He's never really seen a recruiting on the currently. They're sitting 59th, I think maybe 49th and I looked at that wrong in 24/7. So usually you see a guy, get tenured and win some games. It's you're going to start picking off a four star here and there he hasn't. And is that just, you know, way cuz they is a smaller school, it's a private school.

1:24:00 It's more difficult to get into. Could that be it? Or it could it be? He just doesn't know how to pitch anybody, that worries me. Now the last one here is he's never really used the portal. He redshirts everybody and at wait there's not Damon image and likeness situations to start dealing with that. I think can be dealt with find the right compliance officers, but the one of not a lot of portal. We are in an era where you have to use the world, you have to, because whoever comes in here next year, you're probably looking at portal quarterback.

1:24:43 Probably some portal defensive lineman 22 portal quarterback. Okay, and this is, this is my thing. I think a Dave Clawson with what he does. I think if he went to a Florida and or LSU, he could potentially have better success. They recruit themselves and it's easy to just go get to Ace recruiters and say here, 750,000 dollars, go recruit when we get close to closing time, I'll come in and have a conversation with you, by my side to close the deal on the kid. My deal with Claussen is that I just don't think he is the type of guy that can relate to Virginia talent that we need to bring in the foreign 5 Star kids in the state. I don't think that that's a good fit for him. I think that's where that's where that's where it's a deal breaker for me.

1:25:50 I mean a lot of ways, he has less personality than Fuente times and I I get that he has more of a grasp on how to recruit the area than Fuente did, but if that's not turning into recruiting wins then it doesn't really matter that you've got a better grasp. So I just I just I don't think he's the he's not a very good juice candidate. He doesn't bring the juice and he's in his mid-50s. Yeah. So and it's not just because he's older, I don't whether he was old young and different. His personality is not, he's not a juice, the locker room, he's not He doesn't juice the program.

1:26:31 Nobody's getting excited that we got Dave Clawson, except maybe a bunch of guys that are in their 60s that are like. All right, well, we're at least win seven games every year, we don't want that. Hey Brian. Let's talk about the next guy here. Jamie Chadwell head. Coach Coastal Carolina. What's our Pros on him? So, Jamie Chadwell for the pros. He's won everywhere. He's been He hasn't been a lot of places but he's won everywhere. He's seen success in a difficult G5 conference.

1:27:13 So that's something to talk about there. He's got an offensive Focus, great offensive numbers. I think we need probably going to still need some good offensive numbers because I think we will be able to bring in a defensive guy. It'll be interesting to see how we, how we recruit for offense, especially the way our roster is built right now we're going to need somebody that can focus on that to get. That built back up. So that's a positive in my mind. He's got Regional recruiting ties. He's been recruiting the the Mid-Atlantic for a while now. And he was a near unanimous coach of the year in 2020. Pretty much every publication, that offers that type of award named Jamie Chadwell coach of the year. But Curtis, there's some Cons with this with this higher, which you got for me quite a few cons and what I'm going to add here at the end, we didn't talk about but having a conversation with somebody over the weekend and I'll give a shout out when we get there.

1:28:10 First of all, similar to will Healey no power 5. Experience at all. None, he's been at North Greenville. Delta State, Charleston, Southern and college. Excuse me, Coastal Carolina, not College of Charleston. That would be hilarious. So none. Next limited, sample size is a head coach at G5 Coastal Carolina, just recently, flipped over. So, not a lot of experience there. A lot of experience elsewhere. His best season was the coach season, a very weird funky season. They only lost one game that year and if I can go back and recall, I think that was who they lose that game to give me a melona effort this up.

1:29:04 The only game they lost was to Liberty in a bowl. So, you know, even that year, best living the best Liberty team ever, best little buddy team ever. Yes, we know all about that the other piece is because of similar to Healy, and I mentioned it before he, bringing the type of Staff, we need to win, can you bring in the light recruiters the right coordinators? Would not having that experience with a lot of connections, have bigger programs getting a sell them to come here. The other thing I'm going to put it as a again, as a con problem, with our boy delft over the weekend, It is kind of a gimmicky, he was trying to compare to Georgia Tech.

1:29:52 It's not Georgia Tech because they throw the ball 20 plus times a game. But if you look at it, it is a gimmicky offense. It's essentially a shotgun triple option with with passing. Yep. And You know that worries me essentially if you don't have the right trigger man, can it run exactly? Now he's had a yet a really good trigger man. This year again, they still average more but the question would be once you get I think delft is making a point. Is once people get it on tape. Does it still work? Try to say what the Fuente offense that people sold it out?

1:30:35 Know the one day off. Sense to me, it's still not completely figured out. Because even as bad as offensive coordinator, as cornelison is there are times like, you know, when we can get 400 yards of total offense, And his play calls are shit. So I mean if we hire Chadwell I would be said they're critical of the staff, more than anything sound similar to Healy. Okay. Yeah, the only thing I had actually give Healy potential not over Chadwell just because I could see Healy selling the program better than Chad. Well, even though I think Chadwell might be the better X's and O's guy, I see Chad, well, it's kind of went a 2.0 in a lot of ways so that that to me is, is kind of what I would stay away from.

1:31:32 I feel like you might have the same Same type of outcome. If you go Chadwell that you had with one day you might see a bump initially but over time you'd see it kind of Peter out. All right, this is essentially now we're at our top three. And I think the next guy is probably solid to where the two top guys are 1A and 1B, but let's go. Let's go. Tom Herman, Tom Herman former Texas in Houston coach currently is a bear's offensive analyst after seeing what they did today against the Ravens. This might hurt his case, but we digress.

1:32:13 What do you see in this Pros for Tommy Herman? The first one, I'll throw this out there. We wanted him six years ago and couldn't quite get it done. That's a big one. He is the best coach not named Mack Brown since 1986. I've been four other coaches. He's the only one to get them somewhat back into a level of relevancy. Since Mack Brown left, and Mack Brown kind of left in a inauspicious way there in terms of where the program was left. So, Did pretty good. All things considering especially the dumpster fire that he inherited from Charlie. So you know that's one thing to put it, put in his in his cap there he was 22 and 4 at Houston. Including a Peach Bowl victory.

1:33:10 He won every Bowl. He played in while he was at Texas or he coached in a Texas, he was 70% win percentage as a head coach. And he was the offensive coordinator and quarterback coach for a national title team at Ohio State. Pretty good resume. Their big stops head coaching experience of the power 5 level. Just a lot of lot of boxes checked with, with Tom Herman here. And overall, I mean, we didn't have it listed here but good recruiting background as well. Yeah. Good recruiting background on the cons are kind of as follows though and I've got a few and I'm going to flip one more Pro on here.

1:33:51 He did take a year off Collegiate football. He went to the NFL level, I think some people expected him to land somewhere at some school. Maybe it's savings or back at Ohio State, but he didn't, which was very telling to me really no major ties to recruiting in our region. I see that as a negative because he's got to start understanding the mindset because he is a state of Texas coach. Yeah, we got his background stuff from, but I think when you have a guy who's been at bigger programs, it's a lot easier. I think he would walk in and say, Here's my three Virginia, guys.

1:34:36 Here's my three guys deeper down south. Here's my three guys from or up West. I'm going to listen to them. And what they tell me about how I need to approach each section of the country. I think it's why he's had success. Now my other piece Pro, This guy got fired after going seven and three last year. His three losses was an overtime loss to the Sooners, in the shootout, hip and then two losses by Less Than 3 points. And they fired him. Clearly he irritated some big booster down there after the bulb, my opinion, but I like Herman.

1:35:20 Um, I think Herman could put a good staff together. I think guys would work for Herman because they know again. 70% winning, you went 70 percent clip, you know, roughly every three or four years. That's that's ten wins a year, dip. And I felt like the, the really only - that I think moves the needle for me is that he is a Texas region guy. How will he adjust to that in the Mid-Atlantic? Will he make that adjustment? And I think he can but that's really the only I think red flag for me that really matters because that's the one that's going to be the most important to kind of flip in the other direction. All right, Brian.

1:36:02 So we got to the top of the mountain and we have a one a and one B. We're going to start with the one be on. Let's talk about the head coach down at louisiana-lafayette Billy Napier. Yep, a lot of Pros here. Obviously we got to experience as a head coach solid program that he's put together down at Lafayette. Kind of built that back up real quick. When and some big-time games big-time program experience since he's been coaching. So he's had some stops, a big, big programs. Obviously, we talked about it. We're talking about Alabama as being the big one there and Speaking of Alabama, he is a disciple of the Saban model if you did not read the athletic article on that. It's wild like literally 280 and pretty great. Every aspect of the saving model gets put into place at Lafayette.

1:37:01 He runs that program like a power five program and he recruits the state well despite just being a G5 program. So that's a big thing that they're pulling in a couple you know French Our star players for Star players, they're doing, they're doing some things down there, that most G5 programs don't do. Any took over, you know, solid Raging Raging Cajun program and made you know, that Team Elite. They're really running the the good old Sun Belt now so and he has a great recruiting profile including is one painful. One for every hokey thing because the Taj Taj Boyd's on there. Yeah, the downfall.

1:37:46 Yeah. So he was at Clemson back in the late 2000s and recruited Tajh, Boyd. And as some other big time names from when he was at Alabama, including Jerry Judy and a couple other guys. So yeah, he's got a who's who of recruiting so recruiting would take a big bump if we were able to make Make that that, that pull work. But what are some of those cons there, buddy? Well, it's a symbol to the point a situation six years ago, it's another G5 darling, he's doing great things at the G5 level. He's you know, he's double digit wins for second season down in Louisiana Lafayette.

1:38:35 Reports that he's been offered and he's passed on other jobs on the Auburn and South Carolina jobs are kind of the first two that kind of open your eyes. There's more money there. There's definitely definitely, you know, especially Auburn lots easier to recruit down there much easier to recruit and it all over. So, it's why didn't he take those jobs is something he's truly trying to find that perfect fit. And could we be it? And he really has no establish DMV test. He got Boyd back 10 years ago but there's, there's not a lot here. He was born in Cookeville, Tennessee. He grew up in the northern part of Georgia. He's only about five hours from Blacksburg from where he grew up.

1:39:21 So it's one of those things. He's not extremely, did not grow up extremely far from Blacksburg, but definitely a ways and the G5 darling thing we put on there. It is, it happens, every time. It happened to Herman and happened to Fuente, and they'll be more but to what Brian said, in the pros category Napier was at Clemson. 06 07 08 09. He got let go, I believe in 10. I think I had his stuff up here. Dabo let him go. And that's one of those things to where he was not dabo's guy. He was originally told me about this guy. He was there through 10 so we got fired at the end of 10th when he brought on Chad Morris.

1:40:15 But he had that stop five years of the program like Clemson even in the mid-2000s, when they were not the best team, then Florida State were still, the closest SEC type programs in the ACC. So, is there five years? Tight ends running game coordinator 0c n QB, coach. He went to Alabama's an analyst, he's been an associate head coach of Colorado, State under mcilwain. And then he went to Alabama 13 14 15 16 and you Alabama recruits itself but you still have to go in there and do the work and it's impressive from there. He did one student in 2017 is an OC and then he's been at louisiana-lafayette since then.

1:41:02 I think he gets the bigger picture and I think having that much time at those big programs That's the biggest difference. People are going to come and say it to us Brown. Well we went to is with Patterson at TCU, what was TCU during the time, he was there. What type of program? Do you have? They might have been in a lychee path but it was a G5 program. DC was kind of what, you know, not quite what since he is baby. What U CF was a few years back. Yeah, but it's still it's different. It's who you're across the field from every week is different. Even with they pierced in an Arizona stayed out in the Pac-12. It's different across the field.

1:41:47 It's more Talent. Then coaching at ECU and the early part of the 2010s. That's my big thing with him. Yeah. And like I said, the, the thing that where he runs that program, like a power 5 is the thing that really impresses me. And I think that's that carries over immediately, because he's not having to really change a whole lot of his day-to-day operations. He's selling the program. Like a power five program. He is fundamentally setting up, practice and lifting and Workouts of all that stuff. Like it's a power five program. He's planning out his month day and week like it's a powerful program, he's ready to take that step.

1:42:32 So the question is are we going to make it make an offer for him to do that? And is he going to accept that offer? Because more than likely he's going to have at least some of those other programs at our level calling if not the LSU's and Florida's. It's very, very true. Alright, well, let's flip over. Let's get our one egg and Brian, let's go back and forth with the pros in the column. Because this is our guy. We actually again we have been sitting at the table and this is our guy. He might not be everybody's one but he's our one. Yep Charles Huff. It is the Marshal head coach and Brian let's kind of expunged upon his prose and then we'll talk about the cons.

1:43:21 He grew up in the DMV. Yep, Marilyn Guy, Maryland guy. So he grew up in it. Yeah, you have a feeling that he understands. Finally Maryland probably understands Virginia, he grew up in it. Yeah not only grew up in it but went to college at Hampton in the 757 actually. While he was there blocked for the same running back that I blocked for in high school Alonzo. Coleman shout-out, Halifax County Hall of Famer Alonzo Coleman in the Charles Charles up with us. As helpful as a center for Hampton, when he was there in the early 2000s.

1:44:08 Oh, some of the better Hamptons squads as well. I know Alonzo broke some records while he was running back there. So so Huff was put Paving the way for Alonzo to break records to hand-painted in the mid-2000s. So from the 757 went to Hampton, I don't think they would be even even coming from the DMV going down in there. I got a feeling he understands the culture down. 275 and The Importance of Being a of that area to recruiting. Absolutely. So this is a biggie and I don't give a damn where he was at. He is always crushed Virginia recruiting And everywhere else, but he's really done a damn good job in Virginia especially this time at Penn State.

1:44:56 And I know people are going to say, well, he was at Penn State. It's once again, he had the program. He still had to sell it. He likely understands everything in high school. I'm like, Justin Fuente, Brian. I got a feeling he could walk into your buddy down at Oscar Smith, I bet he already knows him. Yeah, I bet. So I bet he knows Lauren Johnson, I bet he knows some of the better coaches in Northern. It would not be a, I need to learn what these people do and who they are. It would be so, it's Charles. Yeah. It's, uh, he knows it. He already knows the lay of the land.

1:45:38 He's a guy that they were probably familiar with from Penn State. He's recruited some from, for Alabama, when he was down there, he's obviously that's part of his footprint Marshall. Now, They got the guy can just flat-out recruit. I mean, you know, we can run down the list of the guys, he signed from Virginia, while he was at Penn State, but it speaks for itself. I mean assigned to of the best running backs that one of the better running backs that Virginia has had in a while. And then he also signed say, Quan Berkeley while it was there. So Berkeley in Micah, right.

1:46:19 Mike Parsons, yep. And Ricky Slade, really know that. Didn't, that didn't work out the way anybody wanted it to but kind of didn't. All right. Well, let's talk about this next Brian. Let's just kind of get away from recruiting and essentially so one reason, he's 18 grew up in the area, went to college in the area has recruited the area has recruited Virginia big He's been an assistant head coach for, Nick Saban amongst others who have been assistant coaches. I'll give you two names. Mario crystal ball and Kirby Smart. We're in a hc4 Saban, you go far if you're younger coach, it matters it does.

1:47:02 And in a lot of people say, well, that's just a title of just means he's second in command. Yes, Nick Saban has tapped you to be his second in command when he's got to go over here on a recruiting trip but there still needs to be practiced that day or next. Got to do this, for some reason, you're in charge for the day, that's a lot. Especially saving Nate exactly completely screwed on up in the head. Yeah, that's a big one for me and, you know, the other one he's been at big-time program since 2014, we already talked about the facades of Penn State and Alabama.

1:47:45 You definitely glean some of the You know, tips of the trade, some of the what it takes to win at those power five stars by having those type of stops. And, you know, we're seeing are already at Marshall with some of the way he's interacting on social media, some of the, the public events we've seen, he's a CEO type coach, he can sell a program, he can sell recruiting to the players, he knows how to make his program, shine out in the best way possible. It's very, very true, man. I mean you see imposed he basically tweets every week who his players of the week or win or lose? I know I saw a picture of him. He was at some local establishment in Huntington, maybe where he has breakfast or lunch constantly taking a picture with the owner.

1:48:33 And you see that and understand you just feel like he would be that engagement guy. I feel like it's funny as if I don't know if he drinks or not. Do you feel like the first week? He's there. Like he would somehow make it to tots and like take a picture with the owner having a rail. He definitely have a rail at tots and I mean he's like he just seems like the type of coach that players, like, to play for Community can be proud. Proud of, and donors would be willing to invest in. And I mean, that's, that's the three big things that you really want from your head coach now before, and we're talking off the feet, obviously wins and losses matter. But in terms of off the field, appeal to the players appealed, the community appeal to the donors. Yep.

1:49:24 All right, there are some cons and the first one is the lack of head coach experience. She's only been a head coach one year. Yep. They went seven and for their bowl eligible. They got one more game. It'll be a tough one, but they probably shouldn't. They're probably favored in that game. I haven't looked at the line yet, but they're probably going to be favored in that game. They are going to be favored in that game so you can be 8 and 4 as a head coach in his first year. And that's not a bad program, but they did. I mean, when you completely flip your coaching staff, I think, especially as good as doc, was there.

1:50:05 That's, that's where I am. Like, when I see, it's a lack of that sucks. They let go, they just didn't re-sign Doc. Holliday, he had a damn good season last year. You imagine walking in and saying go match that he has, he has now obviously the other one, no P5, head coaching experience there. I think everybody on this list with the exception of Tom Herman, Has no P5 coaching experience. Yep, not head coaching experience. And it's and that's going to be, that's going to be hard. Just because our program is not at a point right now, where we can. I mean, I sorry, Tom Herman and Dave Clawson will be the other one.

1:50:52 Well, yeah, so those would be the two. Yeah, most people do. That's that's the problem. But I think that's the problem with our program right now is that we're kind of in that middling area where we can hire. The up-and-coming P5 coaches that are making some noise. We're not quite at that level. Those guys are going to the Blue Bloods. They already had success in the power 5 level they're getting looks at. You know now we got LSU open USC, open Florida. Open you got Washington open. Now the upside is that we're likely not in a bunch of competition for whoever gets hired at Washington. We're not in We're in a little competition with TCU little. Yeah.

1:51:47 Florida and LSU are probably going to be targeting whoever our top one or two candidates are they are also targeting them there at least on their list. They may not be at the top of their list but they are on their own these Woods. Absolutely. Alright last piece is he has really no 0 C or D c-- coaching experience. He did do some special teams coordinator and Run game coordinating. Back to his CEO Mantra in. Somebody said, is that could that be good or bad? Well, what type of Coach are you looking for? I think with his connections to Big programs and the waves traveled and is regional ties, you would have getting getting a staff that can handle the o.c. and DC duties and not necessarily needing a ton of daily day-to-day impact from your head coach. On those areas is probably not a big deal. Yeah.

1:52:41 So there it is. That is our list. A lot of candidates, you know, I think something's out by I think next week, we're talking her UVA game rap and we're talking about the next head coach, I really do. I think it's going to come out, whoever it is regardless of their situation comes out next week because I think whoever it is, especially if it's one of these guys already coaching somewhere and if they're in the championship game. There is going to be it's going to be that split. Do you see so many teams have at this time of year? We're not going to discuss pickles tonight, guys. Wanna hit that Thursday because we've been almost at it for two hours and it's late and we got the money around on a game up top here. So that is going to wrap up this episode of The Boundary Corner podcast.

1:53:31 I'm Curtis Wilson, I'm Brian siglo visit our website at boundary corner, be t.com and listen to all of our episodes while you're there. Don't forget to follow us on Twitter, Facebook. Instagram. That was a big play by a Heckler. Subscribe on YouTube. And your favorite podcasts or something. Spotify, Amazon, and apple podcasts, we always let Jason long place and he plays this out. Catch him on Spotify and apple music. We thank you for listening. And as always let's go Hokies