Evan Watkins: Recruiting Seminar 2021

0:46 Welcome back to the boundary Corner podcast with my partner Brian C glow. I am Curtis Wilson run We've been talking for quite a few months about recruiting, and we have a treat for Eyre. Listeners tonight, ladies and gentlemen, we have Evan Watkins joining us from 24/7 Sports VT. Scoop PT scoop.com currently offering first month for one dollar and thirty percent off after that. So, a great deal for a great site. And then, how are you this evening? I can't complain. I can't complain at all.

1:28 How you all doing? Doing good, doing good. Nice to have you on. Thanks for joining us. Been a good day for you so far. Yeah, yeah. You know, got to, you know, get up early break a break likely commitment coming, have it knocked out within, you know, lunchtime and then roll right into run into some some time with the family. So yeah, it's been a really good day so far. Awesome, man, awesome. Awesome to hear that man. And guys we're going to cover plus or topics with Evans today including the commitment a little earlier. Today, we're going to hit that a little later but Brian I want to start out Evan with this you know, big news of this week. Was hokey director of recruiting, John Etsy stepped aside, you know, while he was in Blacksburg, he took the recruiting staff from very small, especially by power 5 standards, and now it's kind of grown significantly. And, you know, it's getting bigger, we're seeing people getting added, you know, even during the time of code. That's so Evan sort of having the connection to the program knowing the people, what's going to be sort of the biggest Maybe the toughest part for the next guy to fill what John did and what?

2:40 John brought to the table. Yeah, you know, John was a guy, you know, he actually started when he was a college student. He actually started working avetis Coop before he was recruiting director at Virginia Tech. So, you know, we've known him for a long time. He was actually ivt scoop before, I was really that involved with it, you know. And And he took that the opportunity for being a student at Virginia Tech to, you know, graduating from Virginia Tech getting to work in their recruiting department. You know, he's one of those guys, you know, they have plenty of them up there right now, but it's one thing to sell a university.

3:25 It's another thing to sell your University, he's all about Virginia Tech. Always has been always will be and I think that really helped him, you know, To the day. He cared about what was on the shirt. He cared about the university that he was at, you know, he still does. He obviously, he got a business opportunity outside of college football that he really couldn't turn down. You know, we had heard for probably four or five years that other schools were interested in poaching him. He had opportunities doing some other things that's the other places and just never really wanted to leave. But this one was too good of an opportunity to turn down. You know, never want to fault somebody for trying to better them and their family situation.

4:17 So, you know, I hope everything works out for him, you know, he's a guy that has really helped Virginia Tech. He would wake up in the morning and try to figure out what, what's the best way to make, Virginia Tech, football better and reach the Pinnacle for. You know, what they were trying to do. You know and what he was able to accomplish. Obviously he did build out that help build out that recruiting department a little bit you know. And I think that's going to continue to build out. I think, you know, when Justin Fuente spoke a few weeks ago after signing day and said, he really could see the future of college football.

4:59 Branching off into two, separate recruiting departments, a High School prep, Juco Department, And a transfer portal Department. I think he was foreshadowing. What he's expecting Virginia Tech to do? I think we're going to start to see some of that come to fruition. Now, obviously, it's not the easiest of times to hire people, right now, you know, you got an athletic department, that's told everybody, to take a ten percent, pay cut, you have budget cuts, and and some deficits all over the place due to covid. We don't know what's going to happen with covid. We don't know. You know, is this Going to continue with the 20, the 20 21 season be impacted.

5:41 What's the financial impact of it? You have to add in as well. You know, the, the carry-on of the scholarships for another year. I mean that's a big undertaking, that's a lot of financial burden. So, you know, I think, I think the plan I think Justin Fuente was foreshadowing, the plane. I think. John Yeti helped lay out the blueprint for that. Will we see that overnight know? No, you know, everybody talks about that. There's a, you know, there's some funding that's becoming available there some donors that have stepped up to the call. You have a big giving day drive. That's going to kick off here in the in the near future for for the University.

6:23 And for athletics, but money, money is not where it needs to be. It wasn't before covid, it probably will take years to recover from covid, so it's going to be a slower process. But I do fully believe from all the contacts, I've talked to, from everything I've seen with my own eyes up and up in Blacksburg. I do think the Justin Fuente wants to build out that recruiting department. I think that's part of his goal, is to take a lot of the stress in the, the, the the finding of the players of the recruits and the initial contact and and, you know, the mundane parts of Of the recruiting process and have those jobs staffed by a staff of qualified individuals that can do all of that, they can filter out the Huddle film.

7:18 They can, you know, they can coordinate early, you know, early development of the relationship. They can reach out to the kids on social media. They can gather phone phone numbers, they can gather coaching contacts. And take some of that off of what we, you know, what a lot of Virginia Tech fans or us in the industry would say Falls right now, on the coaching staff, there is a, you know, there's a decent group of recruiting staff up there in Blacksburg right now. I don't want to say that there's not but when you compare, you know, five to six guys with Clemson, having 20-plus with North Carolina, having 20 plus with Alabama, having ungodly amount of people that filter out recruiting information before he even touches the coaches desks. Absolutely, you can see that it is clearly not an even playing field and that's the biggest change that I think Justin Fuente and Virginia Tech need to make dump money into the recruiting department to take the stress off the coaches, let you know, let some qualified smart individuals that Understand the recruiting process and understand the evaluation process get in there and be the filtration system and I think that's only going to help grow Virginia Tech football, they're recruiting there on the field and off the field results and that would be

8:51 my first step and I think we are. I like I said, I think we're at the the little bit of the precipice of seeing that I think is going to happen but covid and some other things I have thrown a wrench in Side of Justin Fuente. And with Babcock's hands have kind of slowed things down just a bit. Sure. And I like how you itemize kind of what those aspects of the recruiting roles could because I feel like a lot of people don't necessarily understand the those nuances in those small little things that taking that off the plate of someone else and giving that to a qualified person that knows what they're doing that. That's what they do every day when they come into work. How much that could better, the situation we have in how that's pretty much the standard across most of these power 5 opponents that were playing.

9:44 So yeah, I like that you were able to hit on that because that I think is kind of a big piece of the puzzle that I don't think a lot of people talk about enough. Yeah. And you know, when you look at recruiting, it's not a nine-to-five job. You know, even even college, football coaching has an offseason. There's an off chance. . There's a time when you can take a little bit of a break from the day to day, you can't do that with recruiting with recruiting, it is 365 days a year. It is 24 hours a day. You have kids that, you know, when you are recruiting a guy like DJ Harvey now here your cross the country.

10:28 So now your time, different time zones when you're recruiting guys, like Robert Wooten like Alec Bryant. Now you're different time zones again. In Texas and you have to balance all of that. When you now there are, you know, obviously there are time periods where you cannot talk directly with recruits or you can't talk to them face-to-face and things like that and and that's a bit of a break, but you still are talking with their coaches. You're still talking with their trainers, you're still, you know, gathering information on recruits and then you have to add in, you know, it's say that you are, let's say you're going to sign. 25 players in a year, you know, if you're not Stanford, if you're not Clemson and maybe some of these other very selective schools, we're going to say that you're going to throw out 230 offers.

11:21 Now this 230 offers you can say probably 50 of those to 75 of those they're completely out of reach for you. These are guys that have no interest in Virginia Tech, these are guys that can't academically go there. These are guys. Guys that are blue chip players that you know is an uphill battle so you can toss those out but you're still looking, you know, 100 and 150 180 guys that you are recruiting for just that year. Then you multiply that by 4, that's how many kids you have to build relationships with on an average. That's how many coaches. That's how many parents, you know, people talk about. About recruiting and, you know, you have to do to be a great recruiter.

12:08 You know, you have to be like a used car salesman and you have to be this, you, you really have to be a tireless worker, who loves communication? That's really what it comes down to. If you can, if you're okay in that setting, if you're okay, you know, we talked about this before, some people bring it up is you know, trying to pick up a girl at a bar. I don't necessarily agree with that analogy because if You want to go and pick up a girl at a bar that's that, you know, that's that's your initial conversation. That's who we're talking about an engagement. You want to talk to this person, you want to get them to be engaged with you. You want to get them on campus and marry you and live with you for four to five years. And then you have to do that.

12:54 For 25 other kids 24, other kids, you have to get them to do is make the same deal with you every year. Like it's one of those things people put be recruiting black and white. When really Rowdy is is probably the most fluid thing in the world, add on top of it. You're dealing with 16 to 19 year old children. They? Change their mind over, what to eat, they change their mind, over what to wear to change their mind over. You know what they want to do after school, talking to them about where you want to spend four years. Five years is not the easiest thing in the world and then you have to add in the, you know, they might even commit to you and that's great.

13:46 Now you have to keep them committed, you know, until until they sign that National Letter written and even then like we've seen in the past, you know, like Zach Evans you signed a national letter of intent and then you back out of it. Yeah, so really, I mean, Recruiting a marathon and everybody wants it to be a Sprint. I wanted to be a Sprint. It would make my job easier but it's in there it is. You have to cultivate these relationships for years. And then, you know, you get them on campus, you got to keep them happy because if not, they'll hit the transfer portal, they might even badmouth you on the way out. And then you lose any shot at kids that there Friends with any kids that are at their High School, you make their High School coaches.

14:39 Mad. I mean, you know, we had, we had this long discussion on BT scoop, you know, a couple for the past couple of weeks with Darryl Tapp leaving, Virginia Tech to go to the NFL. I don't blame him at all, he's got the absolute 100% best personality for recruiting, but who wants that job? I mean, who Who wants their livelihood to depend on the the decision-making of 16 and 19 year old kids that you know, how met you make, or you may pour years and years into them. And then somebody else comes along with a better pitch at our school, better academics are better off the field life and and can steal them from you at the last minute. I mean, just think rationally about it is a tough Tough profession, you know, and it's it's not for everyone, I'll tell you that.

15:40 But it's a, you know, going back to what, what to do Virginia Tech if you take You know, all those relationships you have to cultivate and you say, hey we're going to throw that on these 10 assistant coaches and Justin Fuente don't have time. Now, college coach has time, that's why we have seen support staffs grow year in and year out the growing exponentially, every school, you know, even your schools like Old Dominion, have them even your FCS schools. James Madison is building out recruiting departments. Everyone needs recruiting departments, Virginia Tech has A recruiting department. Now, they need to Beef It Up, they need to pour some money into it. Take a lot of this pressure off of the ten assistance, and Justin Fuente and you know, hit the ground, you know, hit the pavement hard, hit the pavement fast and see, you know, kind of see what shakes out when you cast that really wide net. Then you filter it out to your core board of recruits you want and let the coaches go out and try to Feast. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up tap because I mean that That's what we had talked about the same thing and really kind of reiterated.

16:49 What you said is that, you know, it's a guy going to a similar type role with an NFL organization wants to win a title, and he doesn't have to recruit. I mean, that's a, that's a big part of what he's been doing day-to-day in the last, you know, year plus that now he's not even, it's not even on his plate anymore. So and let me go ahead and piggyback off that. So, you know, with, with Darryl Tapp leaving, we got JC price. Now coming in, And on top of replacing as the code defensive line coach. He's also taking on the the defensive recruiting coordinator position with Adam Lichtenberg taking over that as a, on the offensive side, getting a promotion there. What do you think are some advantages on the recruiting trail with this type of role for these two, coaches relative to what the Hokies are, trying to do with building that recruiting department up as well?

17:45 So typically, you know, pre covid, you would have your recruiting coordinators, you're on the field. Coaches with one or two would be designated as a recruiting coordinator and that helps them on the road. You know, it doesn't necessarily help them when they're back in the offices, in the War Room, building up the board and, and doing all of that, that helps them on the road, you know, coordinating a lot of the stuff. But, you know, when you talk about like a recruiting director, recruiting coordinator, Essentially right now, under covid rules, they're kind of the same thing because support staff is allowed to contact recruits, you know, over the phone on social media, things like that, and coaches aren't allowed to go out on the road. So there's not really that big of a difference. And to me, not really nothing.

18:34 Really is going to change. You know, Adam Lichtenberg behind the scenes has been a phenomenal higher in my opinion, when it comes to recruiting. He's a guy that's got a lot of contacts and he's a guy that is a tireless worker. I mean, he's whenever I talk to, you know, some contacts of mine or I talk to High School coaches or even talk to, you know, some of the contacts I have it jute, the Juco level. They all talk about how Lichtenberg is a guy, he may not win every recruit, but he is not going to be outworked. So and I want to, I want to make sure that people understand that that's not me saying he's gonna go out and land every person on his board. Yeah, that's me saying he is going to work as hard as humanly possible to give her Gina Tech.

19:20 The best chance to land that person. Now, there might be somebody out there that can offer more. There might be schools that can offer National Championship, you know, possibilities road to the NFL things like that, that Virginia Tech doesn't, you know, may not be able to offer it that position but He's a tireless tireless worker. So we do when you're back in Blacksburg and they're back in the war room and they're going over the board, nothing really changes for Adam. Lichtenberg this is the role he already had. He was already doing it, he just didn't have the title of it. The title was kind of a pat on the back. Thanks for all the recruiting help that you do. Thanks for everything that you've done for just under Justin Fuente Resume Builder.

20:05 Here's your title JC Price, kind of the same thing, you know, I've met JC price a few times when he would come to Virginia Tech for after summer camps, when Martin, you know, when they were always invite Marshall to come in and evaluate some kids as well? He was always there. Really, really energetic guy. My big question when they were replacing tap was I think JC price of great fit. I think he's, I think he's 100% the the right guy to step into that role. It would he want to split duties. I thought of that was going to be a hang up, you know, not, everyone wants to share duties. When you get that job, you know, at the school you went to and you want to kind of be the guy, you know, you want to be the guy you don't want. They want to to split that role amongst somebody else. So I think this was a great way for Virginia Tech to entice him and say, Hey, you might be the assistant d-line coach, but we want you to oversee all of our defensive Ting you know unofficially what I had heard was this was kind of what Justin Hamilton was doing you know I don't even have the title of it but Justin Hamilton had a major say in all of the defensive recruiting make sense of the D coordinator should sign off. What this does is take a little bit off of his plate and allow him to spend a little bit more time on focusing on being the defensive coordinator.

21:34 So you know, when it comes to You know, you know, breaking it down to like the brass tacks of it. Is there going to be a major return on investment by labeling? These two guys recruiting coordinators offensive and defensive, not that we will see immediately what I do think it does is furthers that Foundation that I talked about earlier that, you know, I think, let's say that the recruiting department does start to split a little bit into Juco, high school and And transfer portal, and all of that. Now, you can take that information and you can filter that into to record recruiting coordinators. Who can then look at it.

22:20 Yes. No. And then you know, kind of send out the hounds to do the recruiting and oversee it. And then when you think, you know, you go in that war room and you say, hey, we need, you know, X number of wide receivers X numbers are running back things like that, you know, Now, we'll have a little bit more buy-in with the ten assistance. Now, obviously the recruiting stock will heavily be involved there, as well. No, but I think we're just looking at the foundation, and I've mentioned this before. I tell people all the time, don't get bogged down with titles in college football, because most of the time they're meaningless, and I don't want that to like, to not to belittle in either coaches, or taking anything away from sure. But associate head coach assistant head coach. I mean, you have a head coach.

23:13 If he goes down, you have your number two. Okay, you don't need, we don't need three guys. With this name, we don't need All of these different, you know, ins and outs and nuances of these names that may or may not coordinate with what you actually do as your job, which can then only make it murkier when you go to hire. Somebody, you know, you go out to hire a Director of recruiting, you know, to replace John yet. See would, but we, you look at the, the actual job duties of maybe, what might Mark diet horn? Does that might be more in line with the director of recruiting, where, then you might be looking at a director of player Personnel the higher but then you have to do another title switch, it just gets kind of convoluted and it gets kind of confusing. So I never try to get bogged down into the titles because I think a lot Of those are just resume builders and, you know, reasons to give people additional income, you know, to give them an additional raise, or a benefit. So I'm trying not to get bogged down on that stuff. But I do think what we are seeing right now is the early Foundation.

24:25 It might take years, honestly, with covid and everything and financial issues. But I think we're seeing the foundation being laid for Virginia Tech, splitting out there, recruiting duties, and I don't think it can hurt. I think it can only help here. You okay? So what you're saying, essentially is that we got the roles the roles there, but the structure behind the scenes matter, a whole lot, more than the titles that are being thrown at these coaches at this point. Absolutely. I, you know, when you, when you get down into the titles it's every school calls, them different things. All the job duties are different regardless of what the title is, you know, when it comes down to support staff and it comes down to recruiting staff, you know. They only is, you know, there's a very Defined structure for that organization or that that Branch, if you will of the, the football staff at any school, you know, they all do about the same thing, titles are all different, you know. But when you when you think about, you know what their actual job duties are day to day, I try not to get bogged down in the in the in the zeros and ones of the job title Morris what they're going to bring to the table and what they do for The university.

25:39 Well, Evan, you know, John's gone, where do you see them going? What kind of skill sets? Are they going to bring in to take essentially his role or favorite eyelet director of player Personnel? I mean, are they going to bring in someone off one of these larger staffs for an upgrade, or they all look for more established individual? You know, I'm not sure which direction they're going to go in. Yet, I dunno where I've heard that they've been doing several interview. Several rounds of interviews with some different, for some different positions in the recruiting staff, because it's not just his position that's open. There are some others as well. So, you know, when you look at what Virginia Tech has brought in on their off-the-field roles, you know, for their support staff. They brought in, you know drawn gouveia Winslow, you bring in Cory Fuller you know you're already have po Pearson pray luo off the off the field as well, it seems to me but when you brought in they brought in you know, Mark that horn, obviously he went to Virginia Tech as well. You have a lot of Virginia Tech alumni there and I think like I mentioned earlier, it's a difference in selling a university and selling your University. I think they have to look for somebody. It has ties to Virginia Tech.

26:55 Now that could be somebody at another school. Obviously it could be somebody that you know, maybe comes up through the grad assistant program, that's been at Virginia Tech a few years and they want to promote. But, you know, I think it's going to be somebody. I think it needs to be people with ties to Blacksburg and to Virginia Tech. You know, I think I think that there is something special about Blacksburg, but I think that there's something That makes it. So there's some skewed, something skewed about it for some people, some people don't like it, some people love it and I think if you can have somebody that has lived it and somebody that has you know been immersed in it from a student aspect, you know.

27:44 Maybe maybe even not even a student aspect. But growing up, you know, going into Lane stadium and going to the games and things like that. I think that you can sell it a little bit better. And I think if you're Virginia, I think that's where you kind of hone in on, you know, you, you have the history of Brothers, you have, you know, a solid history of Walk-Ons. You have this family environment, you've built this brand on from, you know, from Frank, Beamer and carried on to Justin Fuente. And I think you have to fully lean in on that. You know, if you bring in somebody off the streets, you know, they might have a lot of really good ideas.

28:24 You know, you might bring in somebody from Alabama and they've got They've got great ideas on how to do this, but financially may not be possible or within the constraints of Blacksburg, it may not be possible, or within the ad structure, it may not be possible. So I think finding somebody that understands, you know, Southwest Virginia understands the state of Virginia, the importance of recruiting, the state has connections, you know, throughout the state, not just the hot beds but be able to cultivate relationships throughout the You know, that's where I'm looking. I'm looking for somebody that can that can sell Virginia Tech for what it is and has those connections to try and help keep people from the state of Virginia, from keep them from leaving and you know, convince them to look at look at what's going on in Blacksburg, okay?

29:17 It's like selling a product that you use versus selling a product that you're just getting paid to sell. Absolutely. I mean, it's everybody always says, you know, when you walk into a high school School, it matters. What's on your shirt, but it really matters if you believe what's on your shirt, you know, that's the big thing. If you can believe in it, you know, you can you can sell it really, really well. You know, that's not to say, there's not really good, you know, car salesman could go from 4 to Toyota and sell just as well because he's selling a good product. You know, however way you look you look at it but you know, if you are a person that has You know, grown up in it, been immersed in it and fully believe in it, you know, and believe in what it can be. I think that you can only help yourself. I don't think you can hurt yourself at all in that situation.

30:10 So, you know, I think, I think Virginia Tech would be smart to try and find some more alumni or former players to come into that recruiting staff role and try to try to not only build their career towards towards working in the college football or working in the profession. All ranks but also cultivate relationships in the state and show that it is a family. And, you know, everybody's welcome back and you know why you should join the Brotherhood. Awesome, I like that. So let's let's go ahead and pivot here. We're going to talk talk covid a little bit because I know that's created a lot of unique challenges for recruiting so you know we know the Dead period and the high schools, you know, for a long time or even letting folks come on campus and things like that. And I know came down today that we're talking even more about potentially extending the Dead period, even further. But I just want to get your perspective on what some of the other challenges that covid presented on the recruiting side of things.

31:10 Yeah, you know, and here I can throw a couple numbers out at you is 24/7 Sports ran out really good article on this recently that FBS college football teams signed more than 400 fewer recruits to Scholarships in 2021 than they did for 2020 and 2019, holy cow. So that that is clearly eye-opening. I would say now 2022, might be worse and that's You know, that's where things can start to get a little scary, but we'll start, we'll start with 2021. So when you're in 2021, when you're, you know, when you're trying to to recruit 21 and covid hits, you are, if you are not one of the top will estimate will round to 400.

32:01 If you are not one of the top 400 players in this in the country, your rankings may not matter, kind of at all, to be honest, because the big ranking periods for you outside. That top 400 would be junior film. Eval spring workouts, summer camps senior season. Now, you can players in the state of Virginia, they had to, they had, they had their junior season. And no Spring football, no spring workouts, at all, you have no summer camps at all. You have no senior season. Before signing day three out of the four ranking opportunities.

32:44 You had are gone. Now, that also means three out of the four, major scholarship opportunities. You had are now gone as well. So you you not only you not only could be somebody that all through the cracks, you are also somebody that even if a school takes a chance on you, That school is taking a major Risk by offering you a scholarship. If you haven't played football in a year, they haven't seen you, they haven't see you on campus to see, are you really 64 or are you 61? Are you really 220 pounds?

33:29 Are you really 180 pounds? You know, they can't get you out of Camp to say. You were say you ran a 44 and we clocked you out of 49. So, you're taking a major Risk by offering those scholarships. Now, on top of that, what you have to balance out and a lot of college coaches did balance this out. Is, do we take that risk on a borderline recruit? We're not talking the five-star, we're talking the mid three-star, guy that may or may not pan out, or do we hit the transfer portal because of the transfer portal has you know? A lot of talent in it of guys who have verified Heights and weights have verified game game film for most of them, or at least college, practice film, and these are guys that won't tie up a scholarship for five years. If they don't pan out, these are guys that you could tie the scholarship for 1 to 3 years.

34:29 And then when all of this maybe starts to normalize, then you go back and you recruit back, fill that position, you back recruit that number. so you know when you when you look at it through out that way, if you are not a top of the board guy for most schools, You run the risk, ran the risk of not having an opportunity to play at the level you wanted to play at. You may have to drop down a level, or you maybe didn't get a chance to to sign with anybody yet. Because even when you think of dropping down a level, some of those schools, you know, Texas state is a great example, I know they're not Regional test but they're a great example that they looked at this year and said you know they kind of just said screw it You know, zebra, we can we took another week, Roots 0, they took 0 high school kids and only recruited the transfer portal. But you know what that does also for them? That that some people may not even think of when they hear that, think that's ridiculous.

35:33 But what they did is they just postponed a year because you know what we're looking at now, you know, looking at that with 2021 covid aside, you know, let's say covid ends today and life goes by back normal and the Dead period ends and everything. Cool, everything's good. The NCAA extended scholarship limits for the 2021 season for players to hold over you know seniors get a chance to play again down to freshman getting their freshman year back. Okay, that's great. So we extend that out, you know, theoretically you could have 25 senior scholarship seniors. Most people. Don't you, theoretically could. Yeah.

36:14 What that gives, you 110 scholarships theoretically for 24 this year. But after this year, you have to be at 85 scholarship starting next year. How do you get there? You know, I talked to, I talked to one of our, I talk to one of our guys in the industry today. You know, one of our national guys were 24/7 Sports and he I told him I said, you know, I think it's crazy. The NCAA needs to do something, you know, in my opinion they need to extend it not as far, but extended a little bit and I was like, Virginia Tech for example, you know, I ran an article two weeks ago, Virginia Tech has roughly eight scholarships open right now for 2022.

37:01 Now, that will obviously expand. We all know that, that eight is going to grow 1517, maybe even up to 20 with attrition and transfer portal and things like that. But just Today about 8 and he said, there are teams out there right now that are - there are teams out there right now that have to lose players on Scholarship today to sign anyone in 2022. So you know, when we look at this and we say, oh they signed 400 less people this year in 2021 due to covid and that's terrible.

37:41 I could see it exponentially larger in 2022 because College college programs don't have the space. Yeah, so what one of two things will have to happen. You are going to have to see massive attrition and nobody likes to talk about attrition attrition isn't always bad players entering. The portal is not always bad. I think, you know, Virginia Tech fans in particular especially what has happened over the last few years and some of the guys leaving think people leaving the transport transfer portal is a major problem, but you have to look at it, multiple ways, some people leave the transfer portal because they're unhappy some people leave the transfer portal because they want more playing time or better opportunity, some people leave the transfer portal, early Levi, the transfer portal.

38:30 I was just simply because of academics or an off the field issue. Some people will leave to be closer to home some people. Decide, nobody really wants to talk about are asked to leave the that people act like that, don't happen, that happens. People are asked to leave your scholarship, may not be retained. If it is retained, you may not see the field, you may not play. It may be worth it for you to find an opportunity elsewhere and you know, a lot of That that happens everywhere. Now you're going to add it on top of that, moving forward, the scholarship number crunch that every school is dealing with. We have to free up space somehow.

39:11 Yeah. You're gonna deal with the money of it, you know. I heard you know every what does it every 10? Scholarships, every 10 scholarships is roughly a million dollars. So, you know, if you're carrying over a lot of scholarships here carrying over a lot of money. So some schools are saying, hey, we know the NCAA said you can carry over and go over 85 this year, but we can't afford it, so we're not doing it. So, you know, some of those players may have to find other homes and then we're going to add the the Colossal mess that I foresee coming of players entering the transfer portal because we were a 2021 signee. We never saw the coaches.

39:54 Two-Face, we never step foot on campus, before we signed and we hate it here. We're in a bad situation. We're going to see that become very apparent and I think it'll be very apparent very quickly. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of freshmen, all over the country, start to enter the portal after getting on campus and being there for a few months. And realizing, you know, maybe what I was sold in recruiting, isn't reality, you know? Maybe, you know, I thought I was coming into Into this, you know, great opportunity. You know I thought maybe I was going to be a guy that had a shot at early playing time to find out that I'm fourth team on the depth chart.

40:34 When I get here, maybe I'm a guy who never realized how small this campus is, or how big this campus is, or how far away from home. It is, you know, what do I do? They, you know, and I have to live on campus for a year and they tell me, I can't have a car and how do I, you know, how do I do? It's typical. College, you know, things and you have to learn and adjust when you get there and I think we're going to see that fairly quickly because unjustly the NCAA kind of force, the hand of recruits to sign sight. Unseen for the majority of them and I think a lot of colleges took advantage of that and said hey if you don't sign with us or you don't commit to us now you're not going to have a spot you know, nobody else other schools. May not take you locking your spot now and they may not be in love with the choice that they made. So you know, all in all 2021 was not beneficial for either the college staff for the recruits.

41:40 There was, there's a lot of risk on both sides and unfortunately in 2022. I think that we are going to see just more of the same and I think we're going to see more players left out that either have to go drop down a level. Maybe have to go prep school or Juco, or maybe you're out of football together because the scholarship numbers are not going to be available Nationwide. We are combining the scholarship numbers being low with no Junior tape and potentially limited. Even senior tape depending on how the next few months start to shake out, you know, ahead of signing day later this year. So it's definitely going to be a big big problem. I feel like it's definitely hurt the, those high school recruits the the Especially those ones that need that they aren't in that top 400 like you were talking about a need that Junior tape.

42:29 Need those camps need that senior tape. Absolutely. If you, you know, looking at like some of the guys that Virginia Tech has signed. Obviously you have in the past, you guys like, you know, got like a candle Fuller. He was obviously one of those top 100 guys. He would be fine in this situation, but look at guys like Reggie. Floyd Greg Stroman. Both of those guys were great play. Lady Camp to get their offers at Virginia Tech. You know, you see a lot of Christian dare, so he had to Camp, he wouldn't have been okay, in this situation, you know, he was a lower ranked guy. Silas, Dane the another one wouldn't have been okay in this situation. So you have to look at it and think, you know, while while you want to sign the majority of your class to be highly ranked guys, and that top 400 you also want to have me. Able to develop some of these players and mind some of these players and find them at a camp setting or in a, in a spring work out where you can go walk through their their weight room and see, you know, how strong are they, what are they doing? When they don't think you're looking, how do they interact with their teammates?

43:42 What, you know, you can go into the high school and talk with their guidance, counselor's, you can go talk with their teachers. We don't have any of that right now, I mean, and going back to kind of what we mentioned earlier with. With Darryl Tapp kind of crazy to think that Darryl Tapp was a good recruiter at Virginia Tech and never one step foot off campus. I mean he wasn't able to, he couldn't go into high school, she couldn't go into homes, he couldn't do any of that. I think they only had two official visit weekends and then maybe, you know, they had the Midnight Madness and maybe a couple other Junior days on campus. But other than that, that's the staffs haven't seen recruits in almost a year.

44:24 You know, they haven't seen anybody in person in almost a year and if this thing keeps continuing out, you know, it's so much risk that I can see a lot of college coaches saying, we need to, we need to over sign in the portal and under sign in high school and we'll figure this out and get back to recruiting high school. Once all of the numbers in the money, shake out here in the next few years. Yeah, let me ask you this. Evan, just strictly from The Hokey perspective, do you think? Covid type recruiting was positive and negative compared to other P5 schools based on mean. On a lot of that information that you've been giving us in the last few minutes here.

45:04 You know, I think, I think there are pros and cons, and that's for every school, but I think for Virginia Tech in particular, I think the Hokies do a very good job of early evaluations. So, you know, that and and what what I mean by that is I think that they have a way of evaluating kids in ninth and tenth grade, and realizing these guys are going to be good. Football players. Now they might They might be 100% right you know and think hey this guy's going to be a good football player and every other school in the country thinks the exact same thing and then that player becomes a good. You know, for five star kid goes to Ohio, State goes to Alabama whatever. But you know I think they are really really good at that. I think Frank Beamer staff was really good at it. I think Justin Fuente staff is really good at it you know evaluating kids early getting those relationships early and just cultivating those.

46:02 And you look at the Eyes that they signed, you know, in this, especially in the state of Virginia. A lot of them already had ties to the school via, you know, maybe a brother friends that went there or being able to work out at camps and kids, that Virginia Tech had seen in person. Now maybe they haven't seen them in person this year as a senior but they saw him in person at some point in time during their career, they know and know the coaches. Well they trust the coaches. Well, the coaches In the trainers in the state. And I think that they, you know, I think that this may have forced their hand a little bit. I do think that last year the 20/20 year was an anomaly with in-state recruiting.

46:45 But I think that this forced Justin Fuente and his staff to really sit down and say, Hey, you know, we can, we can exhaust these resources in other states, but we need to exhaust our resources in Virginia because we've seen these kids and some other schools. Haven't we know what these kids can be other schools may not and and you really need to build that in-state recruiting. So I think they took advantage of no fall football forever. You know, for the state of Virginia, I think they took advantage of covid and got some of these kids in state, to lock in a commitment, really early and stay committed. Now on the other, you know, on the downside of that well I'll say one other one other positive is if they got these kids on campus This regardless of where they came from. If you were on, if you visited Virginia Tech before and then covid hits and you don't get a chance to visit Clemson, you don't get a chance to visit Ohio state Alabama, you can maybe be able to ride off of you.

47:48 Saw us in person. You know what, we have you walked our campus, you know come come. Come be a hokie as opposed to what you've seen virtually elsewhere, you know another thing that I think Virginia Tech Every school did I think we'll see moving forward is this fully forced adaptation of Technology. You know virtual visits are massive now you know and I think they only make sense you know you know how many times we have you know written stories about players that are planning to visit for a junior day or are planning to visit for a summer visit or a fall game and their ride falls through. Thing happens in the last minute, and they can't make it to campus.

48:36 Those excuses. Can start getting smaller and smaller now because you can say, hey, you didn't get to make it up on Saturday. Here's a virtual visit. We're going to do one on one for you and your family. You never even have to leave your house. Just give me an hour of your time, it's going to open that door up to some more, some more things and showing off some more aspects and you can control it a little bit more that way as well. You know, if you know somebody is really Did in the engineering department. You can you can walk over and show them the ins and outs of everything while they're sitting in their living room and you can control, you know, hey, after that hears, you know, Main Street because we know you're interested in all the places to eat, and here's, you know, walking back into the facilities and show them, you know, the new upgrades that have been made and the construction that's going on.

49:27 You can control that a little bit more when you get, you know, when you get a kid on campus, they come in, they take their time. Tour they leave, they can kind of do what they want, see what they want, and all of that, if it's virtual you basically have the full control of the narrative there and I think, you know, every school is adapting to that. Well, I think Virginia Tech did adapt to the virtual environment well over the last year. Now, obviously, the cons are, you can't get kids on campus for for, for Virginia Tech. On the brink Beamers. Big thing was always get them on campus and you give yourself a shot. And I think that's still true. I think. Like I said earlier, I think That there's something about Blacksburg and there's something about Virginia Tech. I've been to a lot of campuses covering football games and I think Virginia Tech ranks up there with some of the nicest I've been to.

50:14 And I think if you can get there and you can, you can see everything. You know, I do think that it's one of those schools that kind of sticks out in your mind and kids will remember it. So, I think that hurts obviously not being able to get gets get recruits into Lane Stadium. Walk through the tunnel here. Enter Sandman, you know, feel the stadium Shake. I think that hurts Virginia Tech a little bit and, you know, obviously not being able to have your coach's face to face with anybody, you know, we've we've talked about it, you know, guys like Justin Hamilton, they're there. He's got a really, you know, positive personality. You know, Ryan Smith has the same atom, Lichtenberg just, you know, cutting that same mold.

51:03 And these guys are doing all they can over the phone, you know, and over Skype and over FaceTime but you know as well as I do it's not the same you know if you're not sitting face-to-face with somebody, it's not the same. So I think these are guys that you want to get out and give them on the road and get them in front of in front of recruits as soon as possible. So I think that did hurt. Now, you know, I think the playing field was was fairly even for everyone, you know, regardless some people got a little bit of spring, A football, some people didn't some got some high school, got to play in the fall, some states played in the fall, some people didn't coaches weren't allowed to get on the out on the road. So that was kind of a difference and, you know, you don't have some senior football film to review before signing day. So, you know, that's obviously a con but in the whole scheme of things, I think this through a wrench at every school in the country.

51:58 I think Virginia Tech adapted. Well, I think they shifted their focus well to the Virginia guys. They thought they could get to help build a foundation in the state and then utilize their contacts outside of the state to sign some good football players. And like I mentioned earlier if you're outside that top 400, guys, going into the state of we're going into your senior year with, as many kids didn't get to play their senior senior year with zero summer camps. I take a lot of that. Throw it out the window. You know, if you're a five-star five-star, we all can see it. But if you're right, if you're a Amid 3 star and a high three-star. What's the difference? If you're a low forestall, if you know you're a an 87 and a 90, you know, the difference between a 3 star 4 star, there's really not that much difference.

52:47 When you think when you add in the fact that there was no camps no spring workouts, and possibly know fall. So, you know, I think Virginia Tech signed some good football players in this class. The rankings won't necessarily reflect it as well as I think it should. But I do think they did well adapting in this environment that was almost unable to be planned for. Let's let's go ahead and pick you back straight off of that because I feel like, you know, you hit hard on like, you know, not having the lot of senior tape for these guys not having really any of the Camp's. What guys, in this class, do you think had the biggest potential for that kind of offseason bumper that senior season bump? If we were operating business as usual? You know, I think in in state you know, I look at a guy like like a Jalen strowman I think Jalen's strohman a very good football player and I think he was really coming into his own as a junior, obviously he has some advantages being Greg's little brother and and some of the guys he works out with and trains with he's got really good size range and speed. I think he probably would have been in line for one Jalen Jones.

53:58 Another thousand yard receiver in at a Richmond now, Didn't play the best competition in the world. But if you can put together back-to-back thousand yard receiving years, that's hard to deny. You know, guys like that. I think Kelly Lawson probably had the most upside. Yeah. If Kelly Lawson could camp and had a senior year before signing day, I would not be shocked if he was a four-star by some rankings. I mean you look at what he's done. You look at his first, you look at his body and you think like, You know, he can play anything. Is he? The next Tremaine? Is he the next? Amari bar know, you know, we don't really know right now, but you look at what he does in his workouts you look at and you don't think he was clocked.

54:46 Was he clocked at 20? Please o'clock at 26 on one of the, one of his training videos? It was it was Unreal, how fast he was moving on. One of the, the treadmills that clocks. It was it was it was it almost the equivalent of a Caleb Farley. Wow. And this guy's got a much different type of body so you know, I think he's a guy that would have probably gone up a little bit in the rankings. You know, guy like DJ Harvey, I think DJ Harvey probably would have played his way up, if California was playing football in the in the fall, you know. I think You know, one guy I think that was held down and I don't really know why because he was super productive, but I think Kenji.

55:30 Christian is somebody that also was kind of a victim of rankings where I feel like he's probably a four star talent. I think he's a really good running back. I think he maybe was overlooked a little bit because you're coming from the state of Alabama and you don't have an Auburn offer and you don't have an Alabama offer LSU LSU. Maybe within hours of offering and before their restrictions hit, you know, this is a guy that he's got, he's an SEC player and you know, he luckily for Virginia Tech. He didn't get, you know, those three SEC offers that would have been a game-changer for moment. And now he's, he's headed to Blacksburg. I think he's a guy that a lot of people kind of Overlook, you know, I think Christian Moss is an interesting one, you know, everybody talked about Trey career, Portray Curry was committed, Virginia Tech for a little while for Star Trek, hurry actually transferred to North Cobb for his senior year, they played together him and Christian Moss. Christian Moscow better wide receiver. Christian Moss was was the top guy at North Cobb and he's a, he's a mid three-star guy, he's got great size, he's got really good range and he's just a guy that fell through the covid cracks.

56:45 So, you know, I think when you look at it and you go through each of these players, you know, every year I try to look at At the commits, and I think who is, who's a reach? Who's a guy that I can look at right now and say, I don't think they're going to play in, Virginia Tech. And when you look down their list right now, there's not a lot of those guys. There are some guys who say there's some guys, you say might take it might take a year or two maybe three, maybe they won't play until their upperclassmen, but there's not a whole lot. You look at and you say, I don't see it, I don't know what they're seeing in the sky, I don't see it at all. So, you know, I think when you look at it that way, I think the Hokies, you know, I think they did they did as well as I think that they probably could under the circumstances of everything going around them covid and potentially the hot seat of Justin Fuente.

57:36 Yeah. I mean you mentioned it right there and something me and Brian had said probably back in the fall was there were certain guys that were not going to get the bump because they weren't going to get any extra exposure and it sucked. But I got to be a realist as a hokie fan here. We did get some really good players but we had some misses who do you think we're that? Like, one or two biggest mrs. Not only from, a recruiting perspective in state or out of state, but just in general, if they had gotten this guy, it would have been kind of that Crown Jewel. In the class. I mean, it has to be Demetrius Davis. I mean their hands down. There's there's, you know, nothing else. He was the guy and it's sad.

58:19 I mean he was he was locked in right. Like he he was dead set on Virginia Tech and then when covid happened and and, you know, Auburn used it as an opportunity to get in there and and End up flipping them. I mean, it was You could feel, you know, covering Virginia Tech's class, you could feel everything shift that day. You know, everyone started to be a little iffy and their commitments and you could see that things were changing. Now, I think, I think Virginia Tech did a good job going out and securing a quarterback very quickly after and trying to rebuild the class, but had they had, they signed Davis, you know, I think he would have been the quarterback of the future.

59:09 And I think that he would have brought a lot of his friends from Texas with him. And and you know, there's there's a lot to be said when you sign a highly ranked quarterback or we have a highly ranked quarterback committed, it opens eyes to players across the country that may want to play. That want me want to play for you because they want to play with that guy. So you know, he has to be the biggest Miss of the year for for Virginia Tech, when they lost him to Auburn. Yeah, that one definitely was was a big hit. It felt like the wind was out of the sails a little bit therefore for the cycle I think Doug he's in a pretty decent job of recovering but losing that high-profile player you didn't get that forward momentum for the rest of the cycle that you probably would have gotten if he'd a stayed in the boat. I want to ask you this though, of the guys in the 21 cycle you know you hit on it just a little bit earlier but I just want to get a little bit more more in-depth here. Any immediate impact guys, in this 21 class, or most these guys going to need a year or two to kind of marinate before they're ready to make a big impact. Yeah, I think there's a few that can play Early. Obviously, I mentioned DJ Harvey earlier. I think he's probably an easy one to look at and say he can probably work his way into the rotation somewhere, you know. Will he be a starting Corner?

1:00:32 Probably not, but could he be a second team Corner? Could it be a punt, returner guy like that, you know? I think that he has an opportunity to get on the field next year, you know, one that I look at that maybe was a little overlooked in the recruiting process Dwayne Lofton. I'm a big fan of Dwayne Lofton and I think he is what Virginia Tech couldn't use right away in the slot especially if they want to continue to be on Robinson playing outside. You know Raheem Blackshear can play in the slot as well but I think Duane lofton's one of those. Guys from down in Texas that has just has big play potential written all over him. I think he's a really, really talented football player. I tell you.

1:01:17 I've heard a lot of positives about you say it suit out of Virginia Beach, you know obviously I think he I think he's probably a year way, you got to put on some weight to it to play, linebacker the P5 level, but tireless, worker, Great Frame, High football IQ. I think he's a guy that can definitely play fairly early in his career. You know, and I really, I'm a big fan of the of the DN stat that Virginia Tech signed, I think Matthias, Carolyn Cole Nelson, are going to be big time players for the Hokies in the future? I'm not sure. They'll get a whole lot of reps, your one, you know. I think that they could be in that maybe a similar situation like a Robert Wooten. They get some reps here and there but maybe not a whole lot of them.

1:02:05 Maybe they stay under that four-game rule for the Redshirt year. But I do think that in the future, I think those are two big time players that Virginia Tech guide on the d-line. And since we're talking about some of the guys that are coming in, let's give it a little bit to 22 here gained a commitment with Devin. Pharaoh today, out of Atlanta, what type of player we getting with them? I know it's still kind of early in this one kind of came a little bit under the radar. In terms of the, the announcement You know he's he's a little bit playstyle like a Demetrius Davis. He's not the biggest guy in the world between six foot. Six one, but he's really, really slippery.

1:02:47 He's got a good, good arm. I won't say he's got a great arm, he's got a good arm, you can make most of the throws. You know, one thing I really like about him is when he when something breaks down when he has to run, he keeps his eyes up, he looks down the field for a played down field. First As he's as he's running now, he'll talk, it'll go, I mean, he's a guy, that's got some some some shiftiness and he's got some speed, but he wants to make it a play with his arm. And I think that's really, I think that's a really positive trait for him. He's also a dual sport guy, he's got baski got to basketball scholarships and he is the starting point guard on the number one team in the state, you know, on the basketball team I think they were number ten nationally last year, and he was A starting point guard. So he's really, really versatile and he's just a really good athlete.

1:03:40 You know, I talked to you, I talked with his coaching staff throughout the morning this morning and they, the the biggest takeaways that I got from them is he's kind of a film junkie. He's a guy that wants to get better and wants to improve and he's not, you know, he's not one of those guys that that's going to say, hey, I'm not going to stay late break down this film, or I'm not going to go get those extra reps. He's a guy that's going to be first one in the building. Last one out, last one off the field and just a guy that the team can kind of rally around. So I think, I think it was a really good opening commitment for the Hokies doesn't hurt that Virginia Tech has offered to of his offensive linemen as well. So, you know, maybe maybe they can do, I try to do a, maybe they can try to do a package deal there, but, you know, he plays good good competition down there and he's put up some numbers.

1:04:30 Yeah, you look at, you know, is he going to be A six foot four 240-pound quarterback, probably not. But you know, he doesn't have to be, if he's, you know, 61 220. I think he can be just fine. You know, I think he can run the offense. Well, he looks like he can run the RPO. Well, he can, he seems like he's a quick decision maker, he's Above All Else, he's just a really, really good athlete. So I think Virginia Tech did well here now, you know, can they keep him if SEC school start calling for him? I don't know. But you know, for day one of his commitment, he's locked in a really solid hearing a lot of good things about him and I think he's fired up to be a hokie and the Virginia Tech staff is really excited to happen.

1:05:19 It's good to hear also like what you talked about, he said it was all state point guard. Anytime I think about a point guard in basketball, it's an immediate leader, understanding distribution understanding, getting people in the right spots. So maybe that athlete can go off the end, he can strictly be a quarterback, but Evan also want to ask for this cycle. Give us a couple names. It was a couple key targets that the make this seemingly a successful class the Hokies need to Oh, Land. Yeah, you know, I think, I think, Virginia Tech needs to focus completely in the state of Virginia. First, there's a lot of talent in the state of Virginia right now. You know, you can look at guys, like obviously, there's Gunner Givens at a lord Bata top.

1:06:05 One of the top tackles in the country, Virginia. Tech is definitely in the mix for him. You know, you got guys, like George Pettaway Ramon Brown in the state of Virginia. I think those guys are both at least speaking with Virginia Tech and have some Of interest in them, you know, you look at guys like Isaiah Montgomery out of adult Landstown. He's a guy that's a moderately ranked guy, but I think he's a big-time offensive tackle, but, you know, really looking at his is possible projection at the next level. I think he's got a lot of talent. You know, Bryson Jennings dad played at Virginia Tech played with JC price. I think you don't want to overlook that connection, he's a four-star guy, out of Clover Hill, you know, Richard Purnell, and Other one of the guys from Highland Springs, Kyrie moist in. You can get him out of King's Fork. I think Virginia Tech can actually do really well in the state of Virginia next year, you know, I think I forgot Sherrod, Koval and Tyler Banks.

1:07:03 I like both of them for the Hokies. They both have ties. Both seem to really like the Virginia Tech defense and both are really, really talented football players. So, you know, I think I think Virginia Tech really should take you. No, take the 2021. That they set in the state of Virginia, try to build upon that and really try to take advantage of then up here in talent in 2021 and try to rebuild that roster with Virginia, guys. Virginia Tech has always been at their best when the roster is littered with those guys that are homegrown. So I think they should continue to try and mind this in-state Talent. Absolutely, let me ask this. We discussed it on last week's episode. How big do you think it was getting the preferred walk-on? Offers two guys like Jabari, Parker the kid out of Deep Run, the kid out of Manchester here in the RV. A, how big is that?

1:07:59 That some of those kids had legitimate? You know, FCS FBS offers and our staff. Convince them to say no walk on here. How big is that it building the inroads in state? You know, I think, first and foremost, that do a lot of those guys are going to be guys that I can see are in Scholarships in the future. I think those are good football players, but additionally, those guys are guys from within the state of Virginia that you need to have building connections. You know, you can get a walk-on from Highland Springs that cannot hurt you. That can only help you, you know, a lot of a lot of recruiting that's not done by the coaching staff is done by Players is done by the recruits.

1:08:46 If you can keep some guys happy and you can you know, you can have them recruit their friends to come join you in Blacksburg, you know, that can only help, I think, Virginia Tech. And I could do, I could do hours on the Virginia Tech and and why they need to be sent why they need to get back into Highland Springs VA could do hours on that. But, you know, that's a school. You have to get in on. That's a school that has everything. Going your way to be able to build a pipeline. And then they just aren't doing it. So, you know, being able to get, you know, guy like Jabari Parker can not hurt, can they? You know, do they want to follow that up and and pick up Rashad Purnell in the next year's class? He's already high on the Hokies.

1:09:28 Do you take him as a defensive lineman and continue to build that connection? Obviously, you know, the Highland Spring staff has ties to Virginia Tech through and through adding JC price in there. I mean he's got more ties to the housings for App as well. So it has to be replaced. They have to be able to break into that school to continue to try and be successful. I think that's one of the best schools in the state. Might be one of the best talent producing schools in the country, and Virginia Tech are really at the end of the day, they need to get it done at Highland Springs. And I think, you know, Jabari Parker can be a can be a help in a step in the right direction. They're awesome.

1:10:09 I like that. So every we're going to close out with kind of a fun question here for you. So A couple weeks ago, we had ta let us know. They're bringing back college football, makes a new game. It's coming out sometime in the next few years. What is one thing that wasn't an NCAA 14? That has to be in the new game? Ooh, I don't even know. It was in NCAA 14 because I didn't even I didn't have it. Then, I know back when I was like in high school and playing it, you would you could have like your Dynasty mode and you could do your recruiting and things like that. I'm going to say, they need to put the transfer portal in. Okay. You know, you gotta have a way to open up some scholarships and I mean, I might be Cutthroat there. If you're my third string punter, you're gone. I'm trying to find somebody else. So you know, if I can be ruthless and be cut. Good transfer portal.

1:11:02 I'm all-in. So yeah that's sort of transfer portal in there. Evan Wolfson option where you have three ways to kick a guy off your team? I'm cutting you because you're not a good player. You had a DUI charge or something like that or if a great opinion portal. Yeah, no, no, no matter, no matter what, I want to be able to, I want to, I want to be single point of failure, where I can go in and say, you know what I'm done. Yeah, I'm done with you. You're out Balsam. That is awesome. Well Evan we really appreciate you joining else here today in you know going through all these things and talking about it. You know we follow you on Twitter.

1:11:45 Again we really appreciate you joining us and that's going to wrap up this episode of The Boundary Corner podcast. I'm Curtis Wilson. I'm Brian Sigler. Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and subscribe to the podcast on your favorite Source, including Spotify Amazon in out. A podcast is always without our buddy. Jason Long play us out, catch him on Spotify and apple music. We thank you for listening. And as always, let's go Hokies